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helping the cause for mainstream people
ok pole world we need to step up our game, we will never shed the dirty stigma that we seem to carry for some stupid reason if we keep calling our attire and equipment stripper shoes , booty shorts, hot pant. you get my drift.
i love strippers and have nothing against them. hell the class i teach is a very sexy dance transitions class with wall and floor work. i think its beautiful and one hell of a work out if you do it right. but on the flip side, this world we live in is small minded and for the most part uneducated in the art of pole danceing and fitness. lets not give them a chance to shoot us down. so like i said its time to step up our game. pole dancers , studio owners, exotic dancers lets help each other and clean up our terminologyi write this because my marige is falling appart because of the stigma please understand i love all asspects of the pole and exotic dance world , but my husband does not, i have two small boys who lovwe there daddy and mommy together, so i must edducate the world for them.
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15 Replies
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I agree with you about that 'stigma' and were not helping by having names that does not represent what we are doing. It's sending out mixed messages that in effect causes a schizophrenic society. Our society is damaged enough I think.
Men have horizontal bars as in weightlifting & we have a vertical bar that we use our body wt.
Did you know that originally that wrestlers used to use the pole to train?
In the sense too I don't want our feminity be taken away from the pole either.
I have come to a point now that I quit defending the pole and let it be as it doesn't matter how much I educate people that their thoughts are their thoughts and I am not responsible for them. I stay away from such people and surround myself with positive uplifting people.
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I am so sorry about your marriage. It's horrible that some small-minded people are trying to make you feel dirty for doing something you love, and that's it's affecting your family life.
Having said that, I respectfully disagree with trying to eliminate all association with female sexuality from poledancing, because the problem is not really that poledancing is open and sometimes brash about it, the problem is that society tries to tell women that they should be ashamed of their bodies, their activities, and their sexuality.
Why is it that there is a stigma for women who strip, but not nearly as much judgement of the men who go to strip clubs? What is inherently wrong with sex or the female body?
I do agree that making poledancing more asexual would make life easier for all of us. Like you say, a lot of people are small minded. These people would do anything to try to make us women feel bad about ourselves and try to dictate what we can and can't do with our bodies. But by educating the world on how poledancing is not about stripping or sexuality, it just reinforces the view that there is something wrong with female sexuality, and I know you don't believe that, because you respect women who strip and enjoy sexy dancing. We have no reason to be ashamed.
Removing sexuality from poledancing would be good for poledancers in the short term, but bad for women in the long run. Of course, it's easy for me to say this, because I live in Australia, where the conservative fringe is far less vocal and powerful (and by conservative I mean in terms of views of women and sex, not necessarily politically). Plus, I have not been affected personally by this stigma, so it is easier for me to take the feminist stance. For other women, the decision to openly embrace their sexuality is far more difficult, and also far more courageous, and I would never begrudge a woman who chose to downplay her sexuality for her own safety and/or mental health.
I hope that your husband can learn to accept that you are doing something that makes you feel happy, and love you for it. And I hope that your sons grow up to learn that all women are free to make choices about their own bodies, and all are worthy of respect, whether they are not overtly sexual, or strip for money.
You have my admiration for being brave enough to do something you enjoy in an environment that is not supportive of it. If downplaying the sexual side of poledancing would make life easier for you personally, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, all of us choose to dance in whatever way we want. But I hope that one day no woman will have to be ashamed to be true to herself. The only way poledancing is ever dirty is if you use a brass pole and it makes your hands all green 🙂
I wish you a lot of love and good luck for the future.
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this is a very interesting point and i will think about the long term affects , vs my personal needs. thank you for being so upfront. maybe i should move:)
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i also could care less about what peolpe think , my husband well i have to deal with that, but i do worry about what my boys ill have to face as they start getting older and dealing with other parents and children. i dont want some stupid mom saying " tommy i know christopher is your friend … but his mother is a pole dancer. i can defend my self but is it fair to have to make my children deal with it. my only reason for my preveous post is my kids. as far as stupid adults i could care less. personally i love the sexxy . thats what i teach. a class called liquid motion. its the sexy stuff.
i want to make women feel the way i do strong and sexy. my children are calling
🙂 chat soon
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I'm really sorry you don't have a supportive environment. I really echo all of Cinara's comments. The bottom line is we could use different terminology but it's not going to change the minds of men who only see a woman as a sexual object, men who think women should be ashamed of being sexy or ashamed of being seen as a sexual onject by them.
Here's the thing with men that I don't understand – if they're mentally objectifying ME why should I have to feel guilty about that. Why should I feel shame for whatever it is I'm doing in their heads? They're having an emotional reaction to what I'm doing, if they were having a logical reaction – they'd see I'm sexy, strong and sure of myself. They'd RESPECT me.
In my very humble opinion the only difference between a pole dancer and a stripper is the motive, other than that there is no difference, At the basic level of pole dancing aren't we teaching women to be sexy and slink around the pole before they ever learn any tricks? Aren't we showing them sexy floorwork? Don't we begin with what is easily achieved in order to sustain and encourage women to continue pole dancing? There is nothing so simple as walking around the pole and doing leg splays on the floor.
If a man cannot see that my motive is NOT to get him to purchase a lapdance but to self express and entertain than that's HIS issue. A strippers motive is to sell private dances where she makes larger earnings, a pole dancers motive is to dance around the pole.
I'm really sorry that you're going through this and I wish your husband could overcome whatever issues he's personally having.
In fairness I understand why our men wouldn't want us, to say perform in front of a group of men, but we perform for mostly women, we teach most of us exclusively to women. The motive here isn't to become a stripper to make money or to cheat on our husbands – it's to feel good, sexy, get caught up in the moment, express ourselves and ofcourse there is the added bonus of female friendship – which is really hard for some of us to come by.
I, personally, never tell men I'm a pole dance instructor but I do tell women all the time when I am out and I've received such a warm welcome from most women. The men who do find out generally respect me although I'm sure they perv out mentally, but mostly they ask genuine questions and usually want to send their wives over to the studio because they think it will be fun for her and ofcourse fun for them eventually.
I sincerely hope that things work out with you and your husband and between the two of you can find a solution that works for each of you and your family.
If it helps any, my boyfriend always says (regarding drama or whatever) "At the end of the day it's just girls dancing on poles, what's the big deal?" Maybe that line might help your husband understand that perhaps he's taking it a little to seriously and maybe reading into it too much. Without knowing the situation I can't advise but maybe one day soon he'll see pole dancing and changes it's made in you as a positive thing. My bf wasn't exactly happy about this in the beginning but over time – he's come to encourage it, understand it and most of all love me more because I can let him – I love myself more.
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Just saw your post about your children – that's such a strange place to be in. I don't have kids so I cannot comment but I can TOTALLY understand that point of view. That's a really toughy.
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Sex is normal…. its human…. America is obsessed with it, but yet we also are told to treat it like its dirty! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_evil.gif
I feel that we need to keep talking about sex, along with our stripper shoes and booty shorts., as part of a normal thing we humans do and ENJOY. I don't hide my shoes from my boys, they see my feather boas too https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif I plan on being honest about things of a sexual nature as they grow. I have been so far. My mom doesn't care for my sexy self expression on the pole but that is understandable. She doesn't have to watch a video of me dancing that way if she dislikes it. I want other women to feel ok with expressing their sexy self too!!!!
With all that being said…I totally understand why you might feel we need to "unsexify" what we do but. I don't think that is helping anyone in the long run. I grew up in a conservative home where cleavage and any thing slightly sexy was never talked about. I learned about sex from church and Christian books….that was not good. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_confused.gif I pretty much felt like a dirty whore for enjoying feeling sexy and expressing sexy when I was first married. Cuz hey I was always told "sex is only for making babies other than that you should passionate love" blahh I just wasn't that kind of girl. LOL
Buttercup….I don't know what your situation with your husband is but, like Cinara said. If it would help YOU personally and keep your family as one, then go ahead and "spin" pole as a sport or exercise only. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif BUT you also need to be true to yourself! If YOU enjoy the sexy side of pole then be careful that your not disregarding part of who you are to please others.
I find sensual dancing so beautiful in all women, we are so powerful!
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I just saw the kid post too….I use to worry this too. What other kids/parents may say and my kids being made fun of or outcast. I now feel I'll deal with it when and IF it ever comes up. It's not worth worring about, it may never even be an issue.
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thank you all so much for your addvise. just reading everything about being proud of our sexuality brings me to tears, because this is what i believe and teach in my class, it saved my life when i was able to reconect with that side. and i guess its just hard because it might also change my life i a way i never anticipated. after really thinking about what you all have said . pole dancing is sexy its beutiful and i love it. i love my shoes, i love my shorts, i love what it does for my mind and body, and i love teaching that all to woman the most of all. when i see them reconect i almost want to cry for joy for them. its just very hard when your partner who you thought loved you unconditionally does not suport this the way you need him to. yes i am crying again.
Veena, i agree cross that bridge when i get to it:)
agian thank you all so much for taking the time to read this.
i think i need to make another Liquid motion video to post. and yes i just mightbe crying threw it. guess i know what im doing when im at studio next.
thank you all again
buttercup
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Cinara, Charley and Veena have made some wonderful points. Here's what I'd like to add.
I've been involved in mainstream pole dancing since it's early stages and I dealt with a lot of unfair stigma. That has changed and it's much better than it use to be so time and persistent education helps.
I've always found it odd that women can now brag about sex toy parties but they have to hide their pole dancing passion! I'm not about try to camouflage what I do because someone else cannot deal with it. I was in Target yesterday and THEY call underwear "booty shorts" but we have to come up with a less sexual name? Did you know Sears online sells Pleaser brand shoes?
Things are changing slowly and some of us are in positions where we can afford to be open about it and some are not. I have to say that there are certain things we keep discreet due to the sake of our children and cannot be as open about because of their friend's parents. I dealt with that one years ago when pole was more taboo.
However, at that time my pole was not set up 24/7 – their friends didn't see a pole in my house – I didnt drive around with advertising decals on my car windows – and other kids or their parents did not find out about my pole dancing through me.
Now I walk into a restaurant wearing my pole dancing gear that says "pole dance instructor"…I have the same decals on my car…I've been in the newspaper and neighbors have seen it…but even if my children were younger, in most regions it's not as risque as it use to be.
Unfortunately we some people may need to decide they cannot afford to be open about their involvement in pole dancing for various reasons…their other jobs, their children or their families.
That will only go away if the rest of us who CAN show the world that we aren't doing anything we are ashamed of and that what we do isn't wrong continue to forge ahead and not try to hide or camouflage what we do.
Finally I need to point out that even if you call it the vertical bar and exercise shorts and pole fitness – those people will always exist who will consider it inappropriate and perverted and nothing we do to put a different spin on it will change that!
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please understand i am not ashamed i am proud of pole danceing and proud to be in volved, and i love my family, it will be a road i will attack as i go and hopefull represent it as it is…..
a beautiful sexy sensual athletic art form, strippershoes, booty shorts, props and all .
i love you pole world thank you for letting me in 🙂
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Buttercup…you didn't come across as ashamed but as someone who is, understandably, frustrating with others dictating what is right for you! It's been a frustration we've all dealt with but I think it's more important to allow society to accept us rather than for us to conform to what a portion of society expects of us and lose the sexiness which is important to so many of us.
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in reguard to the children aspect and concerns I’d like to share my own experience. My sister and I both pole. Between the two of us, we have seven biological children, and two we adopted from the neighborhood. they range from 16 to 18 months, mostly teenagers, mostly boys. My two teenage daughters and I have a very open dialogue rule concerning sex, sexuality, and being who you are reguardless of societal norm. Americans are so very sex fixated, but refuse to openly converse with the younger generation about it. very odd, but it is what it is.
with that being said, in my family, we tackle the stigma issue by eliminating it from the equation in the raising of our kids. the boys all have a healthy respect for dance, pole, burlesque, and they have the facts to separate that from gentleman’s club entertainment. no snickering or snide commentary from the kids when we pole practice. Ive even heard them educating other kids about it being a sport. I live in texas, the stigma here is pretty nasty. Im proud we can exist in our homes, my sister and I, with out that stress.
I’m also very sorry to hear about your marital issues. I agree with the others, you have to do what feels right for you and your family, hopefully without sacrificing your own sense of self in the process. good luck to you, and, we are here if you need some positive reinforcement! -
i dont want to pop anyone s bubble but pole fitness is what it is, sexy and beautiful just like strippers
womens dont want to be associated with strippers, but they looooooooove the floorwork….
i think the excitement in pole fitness is also that "bad" side …. well to me anyways!
To be honest, it will alllllwaaayyyssss be associated with the strip clubs!
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what a great thread =)
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