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Kicking into inverts
I'm well aware that kicking into inverts is bad! But, I genuinely am not sure what counts as a kick. I mean, is it a matter of how hard you're pushing off from the floor, or is it to do with swinging a leg back first to get momentum up?
I've put up a video I took at the end of my first bit of time poling; I've not had the strength to do this stuff more recently, but was still left with the question in my mind, for future reference.
The first invert on there I know I wasn't kicking into, because I did one after that aerially, but the SM, I'm not so sure about. I couldn't do that aerially, that's for sure 🙂 Hence wondering if that counts as kick or not.
For anyone that's wondering why on earth I'd be trying a SM that early into poling (you can see from the first one I'm not terribly comfortable upside down yet!), well, I thought from day one that SM would be an almost unattainable goal, and figured it would be intensely painful on the shoulder since I'm pretty bony just there, so was doing little trial tucks and hangs to get myself used to the contact point. Actually doing it was a genuine complete accident and surprise, hence the not having a clue what to do next https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_eek.gif
The video is here:
https://www.studioveena.com/videos/view/4e2f0e5a-ca08-44cc-b10d-74d00ac37250
Please do feel free to tell me if I'm doing that dangerously, this stems from obvious concern that I don't want myself or anyone else to hurt themselves, but also feel the statement about not kicking into inverts is a little ambiguous https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif
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18 Replies
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can you do a shoulder mount sitting on your bum on the floor? if yes, then you are strong enough to do a SM without kicking. kicking into inverts is bad when you are relying on momentum to get up and not strength, but if you are strong enough to do it then it's stylistic preference if you bring your legs up with a little speed or not.
i would say that another good indication for a SM and whether or not you are truly strong enough to do it without kicking is if you can hold yourself in the inverted V legs position before wrapping your legs up on the pole. if you can't, then generally you aren't controlling your legs or your momentum on your way up and again, are relying on the kick rather than strength.
here's a video tutorial on the shoulder mount tips blog entry i did a little while back, where you can see the SM from the floor =)
http://aerialamy.com/blog/2011/06/21/tuesday-tips-shoulder-mounts/
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Whether you are talking about SM or basic invert, there is a difference between kicking and a leg sweep. Without any sweep you are doing a deadlift and that is very difficult for most people and not necessarily required to keep the move safe.
For example I can mid air shoulder mount, mid air basic invert, even dead lift basic invert as long as I tuck my legs, but I cannot dead lift the shoulder mount and I can not lift from sitting unless I use my feet to push off the floor which is not what Amy shows in her video.
Most programs recognize that a slight sweep is safe. A kick involved forced momentum and lack of control over the way your legs come up….a sweep is slow gentle leverage and may involve stepping forward from one leg to the other but not any jerking movements.
Amy…odd thing. My SM is so easy it's my go to move when I'm fatigued and even when I was dealing with my shoulder injury last fall and winter it was less painful to my shoulder than even a basic invert but I still cannot tuck my knees and lift the way you do in that video. I believe that's more someone who has stronger abs…my abs are weak but my shoulders and back are strong.
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hm. scratching head. when you tuck your legs in your aerial SM, how are you lifting your hips empy, if you aren't using your abs?
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Thanks both,
From your replies, I'm pretty sure I wasn't kicking then, but it's clear that I would benefit from a bit more strength regardless, to add control. My legs came up so far ok, but then I did have to immediately grab the pole with my feet to prevent gravity from stealing them back from me https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif
I really want to go try some core strength stuff right now, but my pole's down due to twisted joints and needing to sort them before they got any worse. I'm so used to it being there, I could cry every time I suddenly realise it's not!
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I'm not saying I'm not using my abs but that the lift from sitting on the floor requires more ab strength than I have or than is required to do a standing shoulder mount or even an mid air SM.
For my standing SM I'm pretty close to a dead lift as long as my legs com up tucked. For mid-air I actually bend my legs and engage my glutes too.
But I cannot even get my bum off the floor from that seated position you show unless I also push with my feet.
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Miraine, in both of your inverts I do not see a pelvic tilt toward the pole and I see you relying on grabbing the pole with your foot.
Empy, if I recall you have rather inflexible hamstrings also. A SM from the floor for me really requires me getting into an inverted saddle stretch which I have extremely limited range on (hence I have issues with this). I think this is one of the reasons that for me straight edge type moves also come easier than aysha type moves. I have given up completely on a bum slide dismount and also lifting into a head or handstand because of my hammies. I can however lift into iguana mount….but that is more arms and abs than flexibility.
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Yes I do have inflexible hamstrings but the way Amy is doing her lift is with legs off the ground and curled into a tuck position then lifting…can't do it that way either.
Now come to think of it, I can do a deadlift SM from kneeling on the floor in front of the pole but never from sitting or from a straddle.
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I was recently watching a YT video of Becca Butcher teaching a reverse grab into shoulder mount spin, and she was talking about how the spin isn’t as secure unless you really push the hips out before you lift. I’ve noticed doing the leading leg sweep into an sm uses the same theory, as it moves the hips out and tips the pelvis upward slightly before the lift. If the standard double cup is most comfortable and you’re using the leg sweep, that can take advantage of really strong shoulders and biceps which can help compensate for those of us who are much stronger around the shoulders than around the middle.
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@poledanceromance Could you post a link to the Becca Butcher vid please?
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I’m going to refrain from posting the link as I’m not sure if it counts as a tutorial. You can find it quite easily by searching for her on YT or going to her channel.
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Empy, you can do it from kneeling on both knees? i find that to be a really tough position because you have to engage and lift your chest to have enough height to slide your feet out.
You said "For my standing SM I'm pretty close to a dead lift as long as my legs com up tucked. For mid-air I actually bend my legs and engage my glutes too."
trying to get on the same page as you with your terminology– a dead lift is no sweep? and you say for mid air you bend your legs– is that the same as a tuck?
PDR– i find that for all spins into SM (chair, back hook, or reverse grab into SM), the further out your hips are the more horizontal they already are and the less work you have to do to lift to get your hips over your head.
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ugh sorry i hit the wrong button. meant to add: thanks for the feedback on the floor lift being more difficult for you, will definitely keep that in mind!
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Amy from kneeling is not so difficult but then that may be because you are stronger in the abs where I am stronger in the shoulders and upper back.
To clarify, deadlift is no sweep – just lift the legs up with no push or sweep whatsoever. Picture Jenyne.
However I wasn't very clear…for mid air, I bend my knees BACK so I'm actually in the same position as when I'm kneeling on the floor and go into SM.
You can see what I mean here when I do my double SM – I don't start mid air but the second SM is done mid air since I never touch the ground. You can see how I bend my knees back at 5:30.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df6DxUKg6u0&feature=channel_video_title
(Disclaimer…I hate posting vids of myself!)
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hm. sorry, i should have clarified– when i mean kneeling, i mean with an arch in the back and hips pushed completely forward like in a bow pose.
you start with your knees back but pull them up to your chest as you bring your hips up– if you paused it in midair you would be in the same position as if you were in a sit on the floor with your knees up. i wonder if starting with your knees back and bringing them forward allows you to use the swing of your knees as momentum a little bit?
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and by the way, i loved that performance =)
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