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elbow/forearm grip butterfly lower arm?
Hi girls,
I have problems engaging the shoulder of the lower arm in the elbow grip or forearm grip butterfly. It feels that my body is twisted in a way that makes it hard to engage. I do keep my body square to the pole. Actually, my whole stomach has still contact with the pole because I can't hold the position away from the pole without a strange feeling in my lower shoulder. I get into the move from an inverted crucifix. I think the "twisted" feeling comes from grabbing the pole with the upper arm.
Are there some tips or cues to think about while doing the move?
I don't have this kind of trouble with a split grip butterfly, because there I can hold most of my weight with the upper arm.
I'd be really thankful for any insight from you, as I've struggling with this one for quite a while and can't figure it out 🙂
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18 Replies
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Might you be holding the bottom hand too low on the pole, forcing you to twist?
a video would help 🙂
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I hope it's that easy! 🙂
Here's a video: https://www.studioveena.com/videos/view/4f4de0a3-d670-4381-8af2-2a9f0ac37250
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It looks like you are placing the bottom hand on the pole and not actively pushing through that arm and shoulder to stabilize and engage the joint. Does the caterpillar hurt you?
Butterfly is more stable and easier to hold if you let the back leg pull your hips away from the pole; then the higher arm/forearm acts to keep you from falling backwards and the bottom arm isn’t carrying all of your weight.
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Yes that sounds exactly like what I'm doing! When I hang there in the position like in the video I'm trying to figure out how to engage the lower arm … If I place weight on the lower arm in a caterpillar it does hurt.
Is my positioning correct? I don't feel like I could carry my weight with the upper arm in the forearm grip, it feels like it would just slip off. I didn't try to hold an elbow grip butterfly away from the pole yet.
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I suggest you learn to caterpillar before you butterfly. When you caterpillar are you using BOTH arms and your legs too? The pull from the legs play a very big role in the cat. Do you have the lessons? I ask so I can refer you back to certain points…..
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Veena, a few months ago I was able to caterpillar comfortably (unlearned it now, cause I took a break from poling https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_sad.gif ), but the problem with the shoulder was there too in the top position, and also in a butterfly from a caterpillar. That's why I try it now without the caterpillar, to understand how I need to engage the shoulder, without actually placing the weight on it.
Yes I have the lessons 🙂
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Maybe it's something as simple as a shoulder strength or stretching issue (lol, not that shoulder issues are ever simple). Make sure you are stretching your shoulders well before and after your practice. 🙂 Oh and try the butterfly from a gemini as Paunobs mentioned on your vid, some people find that transition easier.
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Ok, so go back to the cat lesson and watch where I place the pole along my upper body as I cat up. It's not right in front of the body, you need to move over slightly. https://www.studioveena.com/lessons/view/4cc97c20-7e0c-47ee-8303-49360ac37250 Because you're so flat against the pole with the torso, It will be hard to remove the leg, you can't pull with the back leg, if your so close. It will feel like you're trying to hold the whole body up with just your arms and straight up and down at that!
You don't have to caterpiller up very high, but you do need to get away from the pole so the upper body can properly engage.
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RoseMay, If you have a webcam we could set up a time in the chat room and I could help you out, if it's still isn't working for you.
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Rosemay, have you ever slid down the pole in crucifix and come into a handstand? Does that hurt your shoulders? Are you able to maintain that position comfortably for 15-20 seconds?
It looks like you are arching to look at the floor, which is causing your shoulder to pull back from teh pole and so all the weight of your body is landing in it, which is what may be causing the discomfort. If you round to tuck your chin to your chest, slightly rounding through your upper back, does that help?
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(i would also add taht i think working the butterfly position from teh floor, in a handstand, is a good idea anyway)
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Thank you all for your answers 🙂
Veena, thanks for offering to help in chat, but I don't have a webcam 🙁
Your grip looks different than mine …. um, so I gotta ask, where does the pole sit at the top of a caterpillar: on the boob or on the outside of the boob? For now I've been holding it between the boobs .. didn't want to squish anything https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gifAmy, yes I can hold a handstand for quite some time, without pain. I can also hold free elbowstands without my head resting on the ground until I get bored without pain. And I'm very comfortable with the handstand butterfly (been working on your tutorial for the spinning chopper dismount :-)) So I think I *should* be strong enough for the basic butterfly …
I think tucking the chin would make it more comfortable, I'll keep that in mind for my next try 🙂Dustbunny, I've been thinking the same thing and therefore I'm doing Veenas shoulder stretching and conditioning exercises after every practice for quite some time now 🙂 When I go from a gemini to a butterfly I end up holding most of my weight with the hooked leg – which makes the butterfly easier (but also more painful https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif), but doesn't solve the problem I have with the elbow/forearm grip ..
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Rosemay, Outside the boobs, bring the pole into the shoulder, not the center of the chest. Watch and listen at 4: 38 ish https://www.studioveena.com/lessons/view/4cc97c20-7e0c-47ee-8303-49360ac37250 I talk about directing the hips slightly to one side, this changes your balance. You can see I can then bring the pole into my shoulder. Take a look at how in the Basic butterfly my shoulder/chest area is touching the pole, but my butt is sticking out like I'm doing a squat.
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So in today's practice I tried to keep your tips in mind and this is the result:
https://www.studioveena.com/videos/view/4f4ff504-d938-4a67-b176-4f400ac37250
Painfree! 🙂 At least in the shoulders … I did manage to squish my boob though. You can even see it in the video. Any tips on that? I tried to bring the pole closer to my side but that was difficult.
Also, how would I enter an elbow grip caterpillar? Do I switch hand positions on top or does the upper arm start out in a different way than for the forearm caterpillar?
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That looks much better, much stronger. 🙂 I'm sure the "squishage" will disappear with some more practice.
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