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Current competitions. Is anybody getting it right?
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I"ll be honest guys, the thread really confuses me
You compete, you win a prize and get a bit of a name for yourself, whether the comp is big, or small. what's the problem?
I don't' really understand how a comp can be "shady", they can't force you to take off your clothes (you know unless it's the miss strip tease world cup or something )
your act can be as squeaky clean or naughty as you build it to be
so unless there's peep cameras in the dressing rooms I don't' really understand where the "shady" aspect comes from??????
please feel free to enlighten me if there's something I"m missing…..
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thats why there is lots of showcases now, for those who like to perform for fun !
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and there is so many wrong things in the pole fitness industry …especially those using charity such as breast cancer to promote their things
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I just read this blog from Claire Sterret, I enjoyed her thoughts a lot. I think it's fitting for this conversation.
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I think we can only vote with our hearts and our wallets. Does anyone remember the year two gold medals were awarded in Olympic pairs figure skating? It an organization at the level of sport has problems, what can we in the pole world expect? In my own life experience I have been involved with amateur and youth ice hockey both as a player and a coach. Never a season went by without some group trying to manipulate the U.S. governing body (USA Hockey), the governing state body (Colorado Amateur Hockey Association), the local youth club leagues, coed adult hockey leagues etc. We have players in wrong age groups, skill groups, associations stealing players, high school hockey antics, splinter groups forming their own leagues, poor game officials, home town refs, you name it. What did I do? After 22 years as a coach and 40 years as a player I quit and took up pole "dance". Now I skate in fun pickup games with guys my age who just want to have fun. Being public about my pole dancing makes me untouchable as a coach. 😉
At some point the politics just isn't worth it. I voted with my heart and wallet. I was paying big money for a spot on a beer league team every winter in addition to my coaching expenses and volunteering a lot of time.
Now to pole dance. Recently a super dancer was here in town. A lot of my friends were wondering if I was going to attend. I voted with my heart and did not attend. The studio that sponsored her visit and her personal views are not exactly welcoming to male pole dancers. I realize that studios that sponsor the exhibitions are businesses that can do as they please. I respect that. I also respect a dancer when they open and honest about their opinions on pole styles and who should be allowed to pole. Freedom of speech.
There is so much politics in the world that I cannot avoid. My vote this upcoming election and my work are examples. Do I need more politics ? I think we all have to ask ourselves this question. All I can do is support those people in pole who share my vision. Next year I'm going to Midwest with my heart and my wallet. It all comes down to ethics and money.
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OMG for all the paranoia abt this convo going awry… I think it’s going GREAT! Nice job kicking it off, WM! And kudos to all respondents! Oh I have SOOO many thougts & feelings in this matter, but my fingers will NOT type fast enuf… So to take another maybe briefer angle, I’ll just keep on rolling w/the hi-5’s:
BZ – dude u r BAD ASS! Hockey dude-turned-poler! LOVE IT! So want to meet & pole jam w/u! Love ur story, thanks for sharing, & bravo on voting w/ur heart & $$. As for men in pole, whatev… I’m all for HUMANS & pole… My 2 young SONS are already becoming amazing pole monkeys! I’m so insanely proud of them! Ironically the problem we have at the studio I teach at is we don’t have ENOUGH men, as we TOTALLY welcome them! Hey the more the merrier! And the more “balance” in types of people (gender & all other traits/styles/attitudes/preferences/etc) the better, for ALL of us!
ME — u r a legend, don’t even know if u r a title holder or not, doesn’t matter… Keep doing what ur doing. I’ll have to make a pilgrimmage to the MW comp at some point, I’ve herd so much abt it, always positive & w/high regrd & respect… but dang kinda a trek from my comfy corner in San Diego… One day…And to the person out there who touted showcases as an alternative to competing, HERE HERE!!! Amen to those!! I say rather than growing the number of comps out there, how about we just increase our performance presence?! I mean, I really almost NEVER care who wins, I almost always have my own personal favorites when I go to a competition, and apparently the judges never agree w/me, so whatev… I go to support my friends, all the awesome polers, I love & respect them ALL! And want to learn from ANY & ALL of them!!! But mostly I see any pole event (comp or show) as just a REALLY awesome form of entertainment… And I tend to think the average Joe/Jane feels similarly… Where thankfully these fantastically talented & dedicated performers don’t have to be relegated to an environment wherein they have to worry about takin items of clothing off to a very intimate degree to be able to be invited to strut their skill & be shown some appreciation for what they do.
(& before anyone goes bananas on me, don’t even think for a second that I’m knocking strippers or strip joints! I luv & respect ’em all! But how sad would it be for a dancer that really would like to perform for an audience & only way she is allowed to do that is by agreeing to bare her top, & she is too shy or whatever to do that? And I bet there r still places out there where that’s still the only “option” right now for some practitioners of pole… That’s all I’m saying… Oh no, actually, 1 more thing I’m saying re poling in a strip club as ur “only public performance” option: how often have I not heard my stripper friends talk w/disappointment abt the lack of appreciation/applause/tips/etc they were met with after rockin’ out some killer moves on the pole? Sadly we well know that not every patron that frequents such venues can value the skill / strength / etc of a pole dancer on stage… VERY diff from the crowd u know u can expect at a comp or other such pole show that goes nuts over a beautifully delivered gemini, nevermind a knockout spatchcock!!!)Ok enuf from me (for now)… 🙂
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@firebird: I just can't believe that some ladies would want to perform to the point of goin in a strip club …the worst place a pole dancer would show their skills is a strip club, the guys just want to see your piece of pie, it turns the guys off when a girl is too athletic on stage, they dont want a chick that could kick their ass
but yeah , showcases seems to become a trend , and i like it! No rules about shoes ( i like wearing my shoes, i feel uselesswithout them)
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As Bob already said – thats our voting power. Thats how we make the pole idustry grow and move!
As for me I like to perform and I like to compete. Its just in my blood. Some of us get into the comps b/c we dont have any other outlet to perform. I think we need more performances outlets even for those who dont have the pole experience but like to put on a show.
USPDF is a tough gig just to get in. Ive heard stories of women who didnt get in b/c 'they thier toe point wasnt strong enough'. I also think they kind of look for an image when looking for finalist as well, I mean if they win they are representing US and pole dancing for the next year. Then APFC seems like a good competition based on the people who get into it. But then its organizer has gotten into alot of trouble by speaking her mind and seeming to omit parts to her story. My wallet has not helped either one (mostly due to financial restrictions for me) but I do support those who do make it to the big stages.
Then theres people like ME and Moses Carroll who are giving alot of women the opportunity to compete who havent before. I was shocked I made the Ms VA Competition, I was up against alot of great talent and just happy to share a stage with them. I know Moses and his crew work really hard to promote Pole Dance America and give women that chance. Look at some of his past winners and how thier pole lives have changed!
For me, it all comes down to research. I read all my stuff before I decide to submit, I also look at past winners and competitiors to get a feel for what they are expecting.
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I find it so sad that the USPDF has so many lies, favoritism and such lack of integrity. I have had friends who have entered and been accepted and have suffered bc of the ridiculous rules and the image you have to maintain. Why is it that the titles change? and they changed conveniently when someone from the owner's studio made it to top 3…now theres 2nd and 3rd place? I wish another, better organized, REAL federation could happen maybe hosted by artists that are actually fair. I have decided to boycott this competition and many that I know have done the same bc of its lack of ethics…and insane prices
The APFA is run by someone who speaks her mind too much, is too emotional and doesnt know how to maintain a professional poker face. The competitors are amazing. I love that men are included in the competition.
Polesque is a growing competition but I feel its too biased. Everyone is from the owners studio.
What if the audience can vote but only once? would that work?
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The problem with audience voting is that is is based on who you know, not necessarily having the best performance. If you do not know the judging criteria then it is nothing more than a popularity contest; and those that live in NY have the upper hand when it comes to people in the audience.
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I agree with you. I just figured that since people's opinions change once they are anonymous, and sometimes more than one friend competes, it might work.
but i totally agree with you.
any suggestions on how to make it work?
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There has been one comp that did audience voting, USPDF that had online voting for the last contestant and one of the big comps always has a fans choice that is also done by online voting. In each and every case it comes down to a populatiry contest, and the comp was ripped apart. On top of this the software that would be necessary to do an audience participation type vote is peobably not cheap and I still have not found a single comp that has all sorts of extra money to spend.
Kind of a case in point…..Cedar Point just had a dance competition about a month ago. There was a number to text your vote. Not only did I get texted to vote by a friend who was competing but it was posted all over facebook. You did not even have to be IN THE AUDIENCE to vote. Now think of how many friends someone like Aerial Amy has on FB, and thus in her phone contacts. How easy would it be to send a mass text to every one of her contacts? (Amy, I am using you just as an example, not that you would actually do something like this).
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Judging is really tough. Part of the problem is that in the pole dance industry we aren't really large enough yet to have professional judges who do nothing else but judge as they do in some other disciplines. Some professional judges never teach. Right now we have some people filling three roles…professional competitors, trainers/teachers, and judges. Until we grow more that some are judges and nothing else, it's going to be tough.
I am gathering feed back for my own purposes. This year Lizz Schofield did not judge within the No American Elite division because of her ties to hear instructor and quasi partner Lorinda who was a finalist in that division.
However I am concerned about how we can possible separate all judges from those who have contacts with finalists. The pole world is still too small.
For example…Lets say Alethea comes to the Midwest a lot (she does right?) and lets say every time she is in town a particular dancer takes as many privates and classes with her as she can. And every time that dancer travels anywhere they take other workshops with her too.
What is the difference between someone taking classes regularly at a judges studio and someone taking workshops and classes regularly with a judge at different locations?
It's become impossible to separate instructors from competitors. I think we need to make certain we have a large variety of judges from various locations and have at least a set number of maybe 4 or even more for every comp so that there is enough diversity among the judges plus more dilution of any possible favoritism.
However, I think we also have to start trusting judges to be professional and not play favoritism and if we accept them in their role as a judge we trust them to make the right call when scoring a competition.
I know my students will tell you I am brutal with them when I critique them. As the organizer of Midwest and No American I sat there and watched my own students and felt every one of them should have placed. I also know that if I was sitting in the judges seat (as I have done so in the past) I would have seen a lot more and maybe not felt the same way.
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For the record…I think Mary Ellyn and the team of judges at the Midwest Pole Dance Convention did a spectacular job picking the winners. My husband and I sat in the audience doing our own critiquing (as pure amateurs) and the top 3 in each divison were spot on. There were some incredibly talented performers and I would not have wanted to be in the judges (awesome) shoes.
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I agree – Mary Ellyn has some excellent judging criteria – although as a competitor – I pulled my hair out a lot trying to make it all work! hahahahaha!
Midwest is the hardest competition I have ever done because there are so many things we are being judged on – so basically in the end it's really about doing your best and focusing on your strengths as a pole dancer.
Aside from the hair pulling with compulsories I liked the challenge of having things be required and trying to figure out how to do them without losing the integrity of the story – that part was really fun. It was fun to be forced to be creative because otherwise I'll just dance and not do anything.
Comeptitions are complex – I'm not sure I can handle the process of doing another one – this was my swan song I think. It's hard. I cannot tell you how much I respect i have for those brave enough to endure weeks of ahrd work, effort, creativity to go out on stage give your heart to the room and be judged – it's really hard. I think that's something that organizers need to take into account and need to be as sure as possible that the judging system is FAIR and ETHICAL. Midwest did this – props to them. And I'm not saying it because I placed – had I not placed I'd feel the same way. There were a lot of things expected of us and each and every performer LIVED UP to those expectations.
The thing that was good about this too, was that the judging criteria is listed right on the website. I'm now seeing other competitions do this which is great. Transparancy is the most important thing for competitors and audience members.
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