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Online Voting
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raquellestar, i know that you feel like you’re in a tough spot, but take a step back and breathe girl!
YOU sent in a long video, and YOU aren’t from the west coast. but, the USPDF judges selected your entry as one of the semi-finalists regardless, and didn’t clip it to 3 mins, and didn’t say that you couldn’t enter west and east coast, or that you had to be from CA to enter. so YOU didn’t do anything wrong. your worth as a dancer or an artist has nothing to do with what other people think or what USPDF thinks.
that being said, the issue that empy has raised is a valid one. and while i believe that audience participation is fun, it isn’t the way to make sure that the contestants in a competition uphold the standards and quality of movement that the competition purports to promote. if the contest is one judged by audience favorites, then fine, but then you have to realize that you’re selecting a winner based on who happens to be in the crowd that night. if some of the contestants are being selected by the audience, but the judging is happening without audience participation, then– why? do they truly have as good a shot at winning as the people who were selected straight off by the judges in the first place? are they competing for "a spot" or for the "twelfth" spot? if i was a competitor, i’d be sort of https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_scratch.gif about that.
i think it needs to be very clear from the outset, with every competition, how the competitors are being judged. is there a number system where points get added up to give an overall score, and if so, what does a judge’s scorecard look like? what are they rating?
we, as competitors and observers, need to make sure we:
-respect the way that the scoring has been thought out
-think that the scoring will create an environment of fairness in judging metrics that we think are important
-support the organization that puts in that effortbecause how can you have a fair competition, ever, if you don’t know how you’re being scored? and as someone organizing a competition, how can you not have that transparency?
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All I will say is that I am very surprised that they opted to go this route after the fiasco that was Pole Star.
And, no, I am not voting.
What happened with Pole Star? Might help with some perspective on the online voting.
Edit: Went statistic finding. At the time of this posting:
Competitor / Votes
Shelly Lamb (38.4 %) / 333
Wendy Rust (14.5 %) / 126
Alicia Heaney (47.1 %) / 409Shelly Lamb(happydance) and Alicia Heaney(RaquelleStarr) have Vote for Me threads on this forum.
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YIkes – I don’t like to get into Pole-itics but with Pole Superstar – that was a different kind of comp based on online voting. I would really hate to be Barbara Dial. It’s not fair how much negativity she has gotten over winning – she personally has no control over who votes for her and she won! We should be happy for her. All of those dancers in that comp were amazing, they all trained hard! No one was there that didn’t deserve to be and just because you might have thought another person was better – it’s a matter of personal opinion. I’m sad that we as a community did not show more support for Barbara. She worked for it and she earned her chance to be there and everyone knew it was going to be an online vote. no one says Marlo didn’t deserve 2nd.
I do think popularity will naturally intertwine with comps – especially when it comes to fan favorites…that’s a great point. I think it’s great the community is given a voice.
There isn’t a dancer involved with any of of these comps that doesn’t deserve to be where they are, however I think Empy’s point was more generalized as to "how do we as a community feel about voting?" How does this effect our community? Do you like it? Does it cause negativity or positivity? No one was saying ANYONE did anything wrong or that any organizations did anything wrong.
I think Empy was trying to discuss the system – or atleast that’s how I took it. USPDF has taken measure to keep the voting as fair as it can be and I am really excited that they have reached out to us and given us a chance to help decide.
Now everyone HUG!!!!
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https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cry.gif https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cry.gif https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cry.gif I know first hand what if feels like to be talked about in what can easily be viewed as negatively on a public forum. It’s really isolating and makes you feel sick https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_pale.gif
RaquelleStarr, you didn’t do anything underhanded or wrong. If the vid with the most votes gets a spot, of course its going to turn into asking friends for help and support!! Hugs to you. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif
If we don’t like the way something is run/handled, then let’s address the issue with that person, or business. Don’t enter their comp if you don’t like how they handle things….don’t support/give money to an organization if you don’t like how they run things. Its pretty simple. IF you have your own personal studio or "cyberspace" to publicity post your thoughts that’s a great way to get your feeling across.
STUDIOVEENA WAS CREATED AS A PLACE OF POSITIVE SUPPORT FOR ALL WHO LOVE POLE…….when posting a new topic think…..does this HELP bring the pole community together if the answer is YES then go for it!
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All I will say is that I am very surprised that they opted to go this route after the fiasco that was Pole Star.
And, no, I am not voting.
I had that thought as well.
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OK…on second thought. I am backing out of this topic as it is turning into something different from what I started and that is very disappointing to me.
Anyone who knows me or even knows OF me knows that I am fair, ethical, and honest. I’m not going to get dragged into something I don’t care for, so I’ve made my point and anyone who READS what I wrote will see that.
You raised a valid point.
What we see these days of TV audiences voting on "talent shows" is very much about "voting early & voting often", and this has become such a pervasive approach that no one even considers that validity of it. And that is a sad statement on a democratic society.Beyond that, we individually have to cope with our own excitement, and bias, and resultant enthusiasm for some one with whom we may have established a relationship. That probably won’t change, but we certainly need to temper that with the ethics of voting.
This was an experiment on the part of the hosting organization, and it will be interesting to hear how they felt about their experiment when the final decision is made. In other competitions, organizers were accused of favoritism, and in this one the organizers tried introducing some element of democracy, and that has created controversy.
It’s still a relatively new sport, so there’s a lot of learning for all. What I have observed is people trying to do their best, with the best of intentions, and the sport is growing by leap and bounds and spins! We look at Olympic figure-skating, and hear the accusations of favoritism, nationalism, and cheating judges!!!This was a worthwhile experiment, this is a worthwhile thread, and we’ve all had something to learn from it.
Every competition has several Veeners competing — who do we cheer for? — ALL of them! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif
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I do not think that Empy’s original post was anything but opening up a conversation about this type of voting. It is sad the direction that the thread has taken. And yes, I do think that the intention of the thread was for the good of the community. How else will others who plan on hosting competitions get input from those of us that are actively involved in poling?
I also do not think that any post at least that I have read was intended as harmful. The east coast dweller in the west coast competition is a valid question. I doubt that many knew that where you live does not come into play. Again, helping the community that may want to compete in USPDF. I know that the Midwest competition that is being held next year specifically states must live in the Midwest, just as East meets West was specifically that.
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Raquelle, maybe take a step back for a second. NO ONE criticized your talent (which is the gist of what competition is about), NO ONE accused you of cheating, and NO ONE is trying to bash you or bring you down. I think we want everyone to succeed in their dreams and goals, as well as wanting the art/sport of Pole Dance to expand athletically and artistically. I think that Empy started this thread so we can all think for ourselves about what competition means. It was in no way directed as an attack on you. Another member asked questions about the rules regarding east coast/west coast and the length of the submission video. You told us very clearly that your vid camera/editing was broken. I think everyone knows that now and gets it. It was also brought up that there are no rules about which regional you can submit for. I, personally, am not such a fan of viewer voting, but I get the feeling that USPDF is trying this so that more regular people can feel like they’re more involved and kind of participating in the event, as well as exposing "friends" who may have never seen pole dancing at this level before. I, for one, am not able to attend either regional and I am never going to compete in either regional. Yet with the viewer voting, I do feel excited about it and I want to know more! I don’t think that anyone feels that you don’t deserve to be in the competition. I would hope that the fact that you are one of the three would boost your self-esteem. I know this is going to sound harsh, but: you might be the only one who feels like you aren’t good enough, and frankly, if you don’t feel good enough, even if you win the title of Miss USPDF 2010, it’s not going to prove it to you.
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Dez…This was a worthwhile experiment, this is a worthwhile thread, and we’ve all had something to learn from it.
I think the original post was fine…..its great to talk about these things. The problem comes in when we start using examples…..even if no names are mentioned it still is VERY personal to the one who knows its them. Think before you post…..and I’m not directing any of my posts to anyone person but all the members who use the site. This is a highly trafficked site and just because someone has never commented or posted here doesn’t mean they aren’t watching… https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cyclops_ani.gif
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so much food for thought here… personally, i kind of like the fact that uspdf chose 3 finalists from whom the public could choose the 12th. i find it fun. and you know what? even if it IS somewhat a popularity contest at this stage, so what ? all 3 of those girls have something special to offer !
and while an open discussion here about the idea of online voting is a great idea, i have to say i didn’t feel good about the tone of some of the statements. yes, let’s talk about this stuff. yes, let’s have preferences. it’s all ok so long as we’re keeping in mind that sometimes when we write something, it can come across harsh, whereas if it was spoken, the message might sound completely different.
i didn’t particularly feel anyone was being bashed, but then again, if i were reading a community forum and KNEW i was being referred to, only not by name, i might feel a bit defensive about it…
i dunno girls….. i just want us all to play nice together !
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so much food for thought here… personally, i kind of like the fact that uspdf chose 3 finalists from whom the public could choose the 12th. i find it fun. and you know what? even if it IS somewhat a popularity contest at this stage, so what ? all 3 of those girls have something special to offer !
and while an open discussion here about the idea of online voting is a great idea, i have to say i didn’t feel good about the tone of some of the statements. yes, let’s talk about this stuff. yes, let’s have preferences. it’s all ok so long as we’re keeping in mind that sometimes when we write something, it can come across harsh, whereas if it was spoken, the message might sound completely different.
i didn’t particularly feel anyone was being bashed, but then again, if i were reading a community forum and KNEW i was being referred to, only not by name, i might feel a bit defensive about it…
i dunno girls….. i just want us all to play nice together !
"like"One cool think about online voting is we get to participate and it builds excitement!!!! I am really excited for all 3 girls and I can’t wait to see the outcome!
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Raquelle, you totally had a fit when you didn’t get picked for the East and said that everyone’s style was similar compared to your unique style. That’s ballsy, and while you didn’t DIRECT it at anyone, it could be perceived that way, and it could hurt someone else’s feelings so you totally cannot come in here with hurt feelings because you chose to perceive this post negatively. Yes, you are talented enough to share the stage with whoever else. Wendy and Anna picked people who could definitely compete. You are a talented pole dancer.
I’m pretty sure the part about the sharing the stage was in reference to Voters Only Competitions. Like if I competed, and was a naughty Cam Girl… and I posted a video with an envelope covering my junk and said, "everyone who votes for me gets a video of this junk, right here". And then I was all set to compete with Alethea Austin ’cause I showed my junk to a bunch of boys who wanted to see my junk. It totally doesn’t work in this case, where the finalists we vote for are still chosen by W&A. We’re talking about the DIRECTION of Online Voting in regards to pole competitions.
How you feel about it, how popularity fits in. Personally, I’m not a fan. I trust W&A to give me the best pole competitors- and I know that there are plenty of great pole dancers who would not win through online voting- just because elements of it are popularity based.
ESPECIALLY in regards to phone and text messaging. I wanted to rain fiery death on America when Kris Allen defeated Adam Lambert in American Idol. FIERY DEATH.
None of it made sense. I was livid. I’m still livid. I would hate to feel that way about pole dancing. I would hate to want to rain fiery death on the pole community.
As it is, I think we’re fine, so long as this doesn’t … become a trend.
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My sincerest apologies https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_redface.gif First, My post was not meant to hurt or attack anyone personally. I do not know any of the competitors nor do I judge them, but like others have said, by making references, though not directly, someone could take it to heart and get hurt. Second,if I was wrong about being able to apply to all the competitions, I am sorry. I should research the facts before questioning. I thought my points were legit, but I should have worded them differently.
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I can definitely understand where Raquelstar is coming from after reading certain posts within this thread ..
With that being said .. GOOD LUCK ALICIA AND THE OTHER TWO CONTESTANTS!! ..
(and girl if I ever see you say you’re overweight again .. I’ll smack you silly!)
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Ok, this is a little off base- but where are you people finding these videos and voting? https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_confused.gif I’ve obviously been out of the loop on this one. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_lol.gif It’s hard for me to keep up and know what competitions anyone is talking about these days because there are so many. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif
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