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Read this post on Psychology Today about Pole Dancing
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wow lol this discussion got so heated. feeling really bad for this writer. granted, she didnt quite take the necessary steps to learn more about pole fitness. but at the same time she probably didnt talk to the right people. i think rather than attack with information, someone should offer this woman a real class, not just a ‘sexy, lets grind’ class. or have her watch artful competitions. i think she’ll be quite surprised when she walks in and an instructor tells her she needs to warm and stretch her muscles before EVER touching that pole. the next surprise might be that you wont be spinning right away. holding on while walking and pole ups are beginner 🙂 and when the sore muscles hit thr next day, her tune might change. and just to blow her mind show her a human flag.
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I just woke up and read the thread as "read this Psycho Today post about pole dancing".
That pretty much sums it up.
"I have a psychology degree so I can post my opinion of what I think of something without actually trying it."
Yep, you DO sound crazy! SMH, you didn't even bother to research if men did pole LOL. And for the record, while I might be slinky and sexy at work, the studio I go to rarely has a "grind the sh*t out of this pole" workshop. Or twerking. But, and here's the kicker—I hate twerking. Still a pole dancer. Also, pretty sure I'd die if I ever saw Oona Kivela or Marion Crampe grinding.
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ALSO. And I just thought of this (because not having coffee before you check the internet is dangerous).
If this was about regular dance. No prop, just dance. Dance like you see on "So You Think You Could Dance." Wouldn't anyone be bothered by the fact that she only talked about ONE kind of dancing ("sexy"?) The equivolent would be her writing a blog about taking a hip hop class and being disappointed and calling anyone who does dance in general silly for making them feel good about themselves. There's still ballet, jazz, tap, contemporary, etc to go on and try through DANCE. But I mean, since there's a pole, I guess it's okay to get confused and only single out one general of POLE-dance.
No, but really. I wish I could post a photo of my hand.
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@villian, I don't feel bad for her. In my past life I was a writer, and heat is something you expect if you're writing about anything controversial. Also, she mentions she was in a studio that had poles, right? So she has already had a chance to try a class. And due to the wonders of the 'net, if she bothered doing any real research, she would have seen competitions. She just chose ignorance. 😉
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not sure if you saw my post above, but this is about my (former) studio I owned.
She as far as I've heard hasn't been in…yet. She wouldn't necessarily even see the pole room because the studio is over 9000 sq ft and has 3 large class rooms. The pole room door is always shut, so she may never even walk in there. Although, eventually curiosity gets them as they walk passed the pole room door into the main fitness room and they peak in lol
Also the studio has anywhere from 30-60 or more different classes a week, so there is a good chance she'll never do a pole class or even a class in the pole room. But we'll see if she posts a followup. I contacted my ex biz partner and showed her the article (she owns the studio now), and she said she'll show her what it's about! lol
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Thank you Veena for inviting her. We want more people educated on what we like so let's be proactive and educate them. I work too hard and have bruises to prove so it's hard to see someone making ignorant remarks on my art.
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I am wholeheartedly amused that whenever there is a negative article about pole dance, it seems the pole dance community overwhelm the negative comments of 'outsiders' to a level almost akin to trolling. I'm so glad to be an 'insider' in the pole community.
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I was, at first, interested to see an article written by intelligent individuals about pole dance… but I was a bit surprised to find it was a blog (you can see "blog" written in the URL) written by someone who hadn't even tried pole dance at all.
I found some of the facts wrong (ONLY for WOMEN! Ha! How about Steven Retchless? Our own Poledancefan? Hmm?), and I found a lot of it to be simple speculation and wonderings… more like a personal essay, rather than an article (an article putting me in the mind of something researched, possibly peer-reviewed).
I have recently discovered that Pole Dance is being offered to the grade 12 girls here in town, which I think is pretty awesome. Miley Cyrus' "Pole dancing" was hanging on to a pole-like apparatus upon a moving platform (I looked it up on Youtube, saw no actual pole dancing).
Further, the "pole dance was set up for the satisfaction and pleasure of men." Umm, what about Burlesque? Belly Dancing? Those are both considered female-empowering dance styles that are highly regarded, particularly in our culture and European culture. Burlesque was the original stripping, and women were arrested for it. Belly Dancing was said to have been something to entertain men, and also said to have helped the women through childbirth, and as a bonding experience. There's a lot more behind "women's empowerment" than just our feminist movement these days!
Finally, I often have the thought to pole DANCE when I hear an excellent song. Grinding on my pole, or any other pole, has little to do with the music, the beat, etc. and more to do with being silly, or being slutty. Either way, it's the woman't choice, and I encourage her to do that… but it has nothing to do with pole dancing.
Just because it's done WITH a pole, doesn't mean it's pole dance. I think a lot of builders would agree with me on that one, too!
Anyways… I hope that this person takes the time to explore the world of pole dance, and find out that it's a lot more than 'grinding on a pole,' because it's sure changed my life for the better, and I would hope it would do the same for others, even if it's just an opening of the mind!
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Yup I was annoyed at the quotations I saw reposted on Facebook–I resisted clicking out to not give them more views 😀 There is sexy pole, sporty pole, pole art, lyrical, contemporary… and here she's equating it all of pole with what I would call "pole play" (grinding) not pole dance. If she ever *tried* sexy pole with grinding AND tricks/flowy movements I bet she would have to think twice about watering it down the way she did in her post. Surely she would not be pleased if someone equated having a Ph D in Psychology with taking high school Psychology.
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She didn’t try a class which is a disappointment to me. She can write about pole dancing after she actually tries it and can give a more informed opinion.
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Thanks for sharing this, Anamika! I posted my 2 cents.
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Thanks for sharing this. As a doctoral student in psychology, I always find this stuff fascinating. I followed on of the references in the article to this, which has some qualitative-research backing. It will be interesting to read the book!
http://www.palgrave-journals.com/fr/journal/v101/n1/full/fr20126a.html
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If all you took away from a class was gyrating and grinding on the pole, I cannot help but wonder if you were blind, def and dumb.
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Thing is… empowerment is subjective, not objective. It can't be measured, only perceived. So the question "Is pole dancing empowering?" is inherently flawed. Power, in the sense of personal power, the value one feels they bring to the world, is a manmade invention and exists entirely in our heads. (Obviously this is different than "legal" empowerment, i.e. the right to vote.) I also have a beef with the claim "It objectifies women" – what, the pole does? Only people can objectify people, so by claiming that pole dance objectifies women, you're really just objectifying women who pole dance. And besides, though no one wants to admit it, everyone objectifies other people. Politicians, advertisers, salesmen, you and me. I really don't think there's such a thing as a world without objectification, nor do I personally believe all objectification is 100% evil.
For the sake of argument, though, I do think she can have an opinion on it without ever trying it. Example: Porn. What a contentious topic that can be, especially among feminists or feminist-leaning people. Pro-sex feminists will argue that it's empowering, given that everything happening is consensual, because women should be free to make whatever sexual choices they want, even if that choice is being gangbanged on camera for money. Meanwhile a whole another faction believes porn is exploitative, damaging and contributes to rape culture by giving its viewers unrealistic expectations and encourages sexual abuse. The kicker being: the grand majority of the people on both sides have never actually been porn actors themselves, or worked in the adult entertainment industry at all. They are talking about whether other people find it empowering or feel exploited — again, very subjective terms. But the lack of direct experience doesn't stop anyone from evaluating the merits of porn and the effects of porn on society, and I personally agree with that – we can't limit discussion of topics only to those with firsthand experience or else it becomes an echo chamber.
For a totally nonsexual example, I've never played football beyond throwing one around with my brother in the backyard, but I'm still within my rights to have an opinion on the dangers of traumatic brain injury among NFL players, what the NFL is doing (or really, NOT doing) to address it, and my general gut feeling that football is kinda stupid and boring. I'm not obligated to change my mind on any of those issues to please football players or fans, any more than this author or anyone is obligated to change their minds on pole dance.
Be it prostitution or exotic dancing/stripping or webcam girls or sex toy parties, women engaging in sexual endeavors with confidence and enthusiasm (rather than modesty and shame) makes people NERVOUS. Not just because women are challenging societal norms, but also because a lot of those activities can be damaging; not every prostitute, stripper, or web cam girl is doing it because they really want to, but because they feel there's no other choice, or in worst cases have been forced to. Sex trafficking stays largely under the public radar but remains a huge problem globally.
So from the outside, how can any one person, psychologist or otherwise, know what's going on in a particular case? How can she know whether the women in the pole dance classes at her gym haven't suffered from past sexual trauma, or aren't currently? After all, one motivating factor to take on something like sexy pole dance can be to reclaim one's sexuality from someone else who has owned it – parents, the church, a romantic partner, an abuser/rapist, society and culture. Or even taking the sexy out of it and just looking at fitness: does that pole dance junkie in the corner taking ALL the classes have body image issues or an eating disorder (which can include exercise binging)? Obviously this is not the case for the grand majority of pole dance students, but it CAN and DOES happen so I can understand a degree of skepticism. (I mean, body image and self-esteem issues come up on these forums all the time.)
This reminds me of a former friend of mine who I met during my early days of pole dancing. I encouraged her several times to try it with me, especially when I found out she'd done it in the past. But when I pressed her on it, she told me about her abusive ex-boyfriend who coerced her into pole dancing (a) for his pleasure and (b) so she'd have the body he wanted her to have. Pole dancing actually stripped her of her power in that relationship (well, it wasn't the only thing), rather than empowered her, and she didn't want to take it up again now because she believed it would trigger a cascade of very negative feelings about herself, her sexuality and her body.
So insisting that pole dancing is or isn't empowering, either way, will end up ignoring and thus invalidating the unique experiences of individual women and glossing them over with a majority opinion. Do I personally feel empowered by pole dance? Sure, sometimes. It has generally made me feel more positively about my body and my capacity to be sexually attractive to others. But it can also make me feel like crap, when I'm having a bad practice day, or when I judge my body in my videos, or when I'm crying because I'm trying to shop for hot pole dance clothes and can't find anything that's right for my body because I'm "too big" in some areas. So my answer to that question will vary depending on when you ask me.
I've already said a lot so I'll try to wrap this up. Just like there are so many different styles of pole dance and no one style is superior or more valid than the others, there are so many different ways of reacting to pole dance and no one reaction is more valid. Obviously most of us here would ideally prefer positive, nonjudgmental or even enthusiastic reactions, but the simple fact is there will always be people who either disagree or are skeptical. (Try to think of one thing the whole world sees the same way. I'll wait.) That's the beauty of the human intellect: diversity. For better or for worse. ​
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Beautifully said SpyralBound.
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