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Sexuality and Pole Dancing
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In regards to the history of pole dance. Although in most common form that we practice it prob immediately dates back to when they had the whole traveling shows and the pole in the middle of the tent got incorperated, but that view doesn’t take into account chinese pole (which although different is a form of pole dance, though some argue it is more acrobatic than dance there still are dance elements, like with Remi Martin or that pole tango video that was posted a while back)
Some people think that going way way back centuries that pole might have come from Mallakhamb http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7MUjFliBNk which requires men to preform a series of yoga positions in a set amount of time on a slightly conical pole that has been coated in oil (I assume to reduce the chance of splinters etc). They also do it on rope. http://mallkhamb-ape.tripod.com/mallakhamb.htm
I’m not a historian, I don’t know if it is related to the pole we practice or if it is like convergent evolution (sorry I’m a Bio major, I’m not try to push any theroies of life etc) and looks very similar because, duh, its movement on a pole and no other similarities.
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I want to let you all know I’m so pleased with the spirit in which we have all discussed a touchy subject!! Its a rare thing to find on a forum…..its very refreshing to see adults behaving like…well… adults https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif I loved reading all your points of view. HUZ to you all https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif
I’ll keep mine short…….I love ALL aspects of pole dancing, the dirty, the sensual, the sporty, the aerial, and heartfelt emotional!!! Finding this incredibly diverse art form has been wonderful for my spirit. I have always love music, and have felt a need/desire to express it…(I play many instruments, sing and did some figure skating back in the day) but non of those forms of musical expression have ever really "done it" for me. I have found my "thing" I discovered both Pole Dancing and Dance at about the same time. When I watch dancing, not just pole, but any style and any form, it takes me to another place in my mind, so much more emotional then I had ever thought I could be!! I cry all the time over music I hear on the radio and performances I see on YT or TV! I am not a crier mind you!! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_lol.gif Its wonderful what this world of dance has done TO me, I only wish I had experienced this all sooner in my life. I hope the "dance" is never taken away from the ART that is pole, now THAT would be something to cry about! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_flower.gif
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Sabrina, well, I DID have to hit backspace like 83927 times! Haha! And actually I think I may have gone from drunken to buzzed over the course of writing that post. But thank you for reading it, I know it was long. And thanks for expressing your appreciation!
FreeTheSun, thank you, thank you, THANK YOU! I am incredibly interested in what you have shared. I appreciate that you were able to contribute some information that was not at my disposal. Even though I suppose its possible that pole as we know it presently was the idea of a strip-club proprietor, it’s nice to hear alternatives regarding where it may have originated from. Whether our pole’s origin originates in stripping or not would not change my feelings about it, but when information surfaces that encourages us to question information which is innately questionable, it’s always a boon.
Veena, I get so emotional about music and dance too! I didn’t know you were a musician yourself, so it was cool to learn something new about you. I too wish I had been introduced to pole (and musicianship!) at a younger age. And music/dance seems anymore to be among the only things powerful enough to induce tears in my eyes. I hope that dance and pole always stay compatible too.
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I guess that being not sexual has been drilled into my head. I have a very professional job and anytime anyone is remotely sexy, someone calls it out and makes a big deal out of it. My coworkers know I pole and some of them will ask about new moves which ALWAYS leads to a discussion about strippers and stripclubs and lapdances and people get all giggly and weird. Why is it weird? Also, they sometimes act like you can’t be sexy at all in order to be a professional person.
My husband even does the same and, yes, I have sex with him. For example, being in pole class has taught me to carry myself in a more sexy way and the other day I came down the steps with a hand on my hip and he was like, "whoa! what’s up with the sexy walk?" I had no idea I was doing it but I felt embarrassed to the point where I stopped.
It’s like I have two lives. One where I’m not sexy around other people and one where I’m sexy only around myself. That’s crap. I’m going to work to be more sexy everywhere I go.
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Carrie, I think perhaps your husband was…not expecting the "sexy walk" but I doubt he meant for you to stop! I once went for a photoshoot with a friend of mine, who did up all my makeup…and when I went home, my husband asked me "What happened to your face?" I teased him for ages afterward! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_twisted.gif
I think that "professionalism" has become synonymous with "robotic," and I don’t agree with that. Also, most people recognize sexuality as something…passionate, close, and something people connect through. So, perhaps they just don’t see how these things can go together? I would think that if you kept doing it, though, they would eventually just get used to it. You can even try to steer the conversation away from strippers and whatnot if you like, or even tell them you don’t feel that you want your dancing to be associated with that topic.
Honesty is always the best policy, but sometimes people forget that. I think that husbands always appreciate when we’re being sexy…they just don’t know how to express it! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_scratch.gif https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cat.gif -
Well I Don’t think There is to much I could add to this topic that has not already been covered.This has been a wonderful conversation going on.So many different thoughts from so many beautiful different people.I agree with Stellar Motion 100%,and I hav’nt been drinking.LOL.To me the pole is a neutral thing. It’s really what you bring to it. I have had many different emotions come up while poling and every time is a new experience. Sometimes sexy,sad,happy the entire spectrum.For any one that has seen my videos you can tell I welcome anything and everything that i’m feeling at the time to the pole.Yes there are times I’m feeing sexy and when that comes up I embrace it and go with it as I would with any other emotion that arises….The many shades of pole dancing..I love them all…love you guys too! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif
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https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif Wow, I love how everyone gave their own opinion so clearly. I agree with many of you in your diffrent opinions, it all makes a lot of sense. Loved to have read how many of you feel about this subject. To me pole dancing has two sides to it, its a great sport, and a great way to show your femenine, and sexual side if that’s what you chose it to be. Its an awsome, and best thing a woman can ever have https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cheers.gif
Much Love!!
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I’ve been thinking of replying to this for a while-so now I will. For some of us- sexuality and sexyness is a challenge for me. So is pole. I don’t need the pressure for both. For some people- pole isn’t necessarily about being sexy or sensual. It can be about being strong and challenging yourself. I don’t want to try to be sexy. Why do I have to be?? Why is it expected of me?? Just like I have the RIGHT to be sexual, I have the right to hang upside down on a pole for no reason other than because hanging upside down rocks!!!! So there’s my opinion- if it’s sensual dance for you— that’s great- but for some pple, it isn’t sexy at all. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif
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Honeyrose, I was interested in what you shared. In your first post on this thread, you stated that "as long as there are men on the planet, women will be judged." And in your follow-up post you cited only examples of women judging you, including your best friend and the instructor at your previous studio.
I think David pointed out something important here… I haven’t found it to be MEN who are judging me, but rather women. That’s not just pole dancing, either. I was with a guy for years that was significantly older than me, and I’m a very affectionate person. We often got dirty looks when we were out together — not from men, but from women. How DARE I hold his hand or touch his leg!! I find the same in my swing dancing. It’s become a joke btwn my hubby and I that I know my dancing is "on" when I’m getting glared at! It was the annoyance of having that experience even in the world of pole dance that prompted me to start this thread.
Mindy, I will confess that as I am neither female nor heterosexual, I have no direct personal experience of what it is like to possess the sexuality of either heterosexuals or females. So you might be correct, I may just not get it.
Not to worry… I’m both female and heterosexual, and I don’t really get it, either!! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif Women are, in general, very confusing to me. It seems as if male culture has well defined power structures. My hubby calls it "F scale". Female culture, however, seems to be a constant shifting sea of alliances and covert power plays. I suppose that’s one reason I’ve always been friends w/ guys. That’s also why StudioVeena impresses me soooooo much! There is a big group of women together, and they actually support each other!! WOW!
SOOOOO… to shift the topic slightly (partly because I just loooove the passion that people have displayed in their opinions!!) here’s a question… Regardless of how much of your sexuality you bring into your pole dancing, how has pole dancing affected your sex life? No need to be graphic, but I’ve found that my increases in strength and flexibility have definitely made things better! It’s also helped me when I have to work on my dryer, or crawl under the house, but those are on another topic. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_razz.gif
Mindy
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So, I’ve just had a personal revelation!
Let me explain.. I’m a habitual barefoot or sneakers pole dancer, and I’ve always been shy of heels from the point of view of being perceived as sleazy or stripclub-ish (not that I personally have anything against the latter, it’s just that I have had to – and continue to have to – convince people long and hard that what I do is for fitness and fun and completely not just to "please my man!!")
But female ballroom dancers wear heels (e.g. Tango)! Hell, they sometimes wear skimpy, slinky costumes too! Yet ballroom dancing is (mainly) universally respected and perceived by most as an artform… an artform that can be racy and passionate, but is still seen as physically demanding and fairly respectable (I say "fairly" because it is usually not assumed that ballroom dancers are strippers or prostitutes by reputation, although it might be seen as "not a real job" in the same way that I was advised by countless narrow-minded folk not to go to art college because "art is not a real job, but more of a hobby"! And now here I am, a miserable Engineer with a PhD in the topic of boringsville, specializing in regretfulness.. but that’s another story for another day!!! ;-P )
Indeed, some styles of ballroom dancing appear to be dogged by (or happily evolved from?) a "sleazy" history – see this interesting article trying to explain the roots of Argentine Tango: http://www.history-of-tango.com/tango-origins.html, yet this particular style of dance has become accepted to the point that we don’t frequently hear of tango instructors and participants fighting to defend their work as reputable! Or do we? Maybe I’ve been living under a rock all these years!
Two conclusions that I must draw from my own rant…
1. Perhaps we pole dancers should be strapping on our heels at any opportunity in the hope that pole dancing in heels will become just as accepted and respected as a well-heeled ballroom dance!! It does look pretty, if I’m honest about it!
and
2. (a) The presence of the male partner in ballroom dancing seems to defuse the idea that the dance objectifies/ exploits women/female sexuality.. therefore (b) men becoming involved in pole dancing is indeed a very positive thing, and (c) should there be a sub-genre of pole dancing involving one person from each gender utilizing the pole in some sort of synchronized choreography?Point 2.(a): Is this the case, and if so, why? It’s strange, since the dude is usually in a very demure suit or shirt / trousers combo with the lady showing way more flesh!
Point 2.(c): Think there might be a clip of Fred ‘n’ Ginger swinging off of street lamps in a synchronized fashion which I would use to illustrate this but I’m finding it difficult to locate again on YouTube..
Apologies if these points have already been made here, but this thread has become so long and difficult to read through! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_lol.gif
And just one more thing.. since I’m always going on about doing PhDs.. somebody should do a PhD on Sexuality and Pole Dancing!! Anybody? Oh, if only I wanted to go anywhere near grad school again!! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_lol.gif
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Here’s another link for history of Tango http://www.totango.net/sergio.html
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Here’s another link for history of Tango http://www.totango.net/sergio.html
What I love in that history is this line:
"A famous fashion designer had a fair amount of material of orange color that he could not sell. He decided to name the material’s color "Orange Tango"; he ran out of the cloth right away and had to order more."And so these days we have the fizzy orange drink named Tango – or at least over my side of the world!!
You know when you’ve been Tango’d:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1jywlZG74o
.. this ad was banned in ’92! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_surprised.gif
Oh, just thought of the fact that Tango might be named to be subtly similar to "Tang", which I believe is a US beverage. But it would be cooler if it were named after the dance Tango, considering the historical link with the color orange, and the scandalous nature of the drink Tango’s marketing campaign.. scandalous like the dance!!
Just in case anybody’s interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tango_(drink) -
Here’s another interesting piece of history from the Waltz dance which was also at one time considered "Forbidden"
http://www.essortment.com/all/historyofthew_rklu.htm -
I doubt there is very much I could add to this discussion.
However, my gut impression is that there is less disagreement here than there seems. I get David’s points about not always needing to emphasize the sexual (lol, "leading with the butt–I like that phrase!)…and yet as a straight male who loves to watch sexy women perform, I’m not going to deny that I enjoy a sexual pole dance.
I’d like to inject two terms into the debate: TONE …and CONTEXT. I think that Fleur’s post comes somewhat close to my own feelings in this matter. Fleur hinted at CONTEXT when she noted she keeps her sexy videos "inside the community" among insiders who appreciate ALL the elements of her performance–dance steps, tricks, endurance, aesthetics, athletics. I think context applies in matters like WHO is performing, (a child, circus employees, strippers, elderly exercise pole-robics students, men) WHERE they are performing (Strip Club, High School, Superbowl, Yoga Studio, Country Fair)..and the REASON (to earn tips, stand-up comedy burlesque routine, fitness, or to entertain their wife)
And there is TONE–the manner in which we appreciate a dancer’s performance. I think that has much to do with both the context and the relationship between performer and the spectator. Now, if my wife wants to say "Ohh…that makes me want to ..BLEEP your BLEEP, well, so be it" (LOL, rest assured that will NEVER happen!!! My poling is NOT sexy–at least not to my wife, ha ha!) But I would never speak this way to Fleur, or Veena…because it would disrespect them..and my wife..and their spouses or partners. Likewise, when someone videos their 5 year old learning to do the butterfly–well, that’s just a cute family video. Basically, you can always tell–just by watching a video, the reaction the poler wants..and the elements he or she wants you to care about. So I try to be sensitive to what they are projecting and react to those elements. And sometimes its SEXY and HOT, ..so I react to it…but in a tone that’s not derogatory or crude. I try to watch all of the male polers, too–and if their content is sexual, I just focus on the tricks. I think everybody is entitled to equal sexual excitement, I’ve certainly got no problem with that!
Really, it’s just about respect–and tolerance. Don’t like strip clubs? No problem! Don’t go! LOVE Burlesque? Go to the show! Want to pole in your Nike Golf shoes in a musty basement with your pot belly and reggae music? Have at it!
I’ve said this before–anarchy may be part of the STRENGTH of the pole movement. Do we need some competition standards? Sure! But we are all free to set up our studios and home poling experiences in the manner that suits our interests…and pleasure. Let’s not forget…we are ALL doing this primarily becasue we ENJOY it!
Joel
Joel
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::Raises Hand like a little Boy in Classroom:: LOL, Miss Veena, can I add one more thing?
The whole interchange between David and Veruca interested me greatly. David, may I respectfully lean to Veruca’s side in this argument? I think many straight women TOTALLY enjoy the beauty and sexiness of other female bodies…and, in the right, protected context and situation, will loosen up and get a little raunchy in yelling out their "support" for another sexy woman. It is often said that women dress for other women…an acknowledgement of both the competitive–and appreciative–nature of femininity.
I think that straight men actually do the same thing–but it is a "secret" and "sublimated" drive deeply hidden underneath the rituals of athletics. Some of us cannot get strong sexy bodies ourselves, so we get a little wasted and enjoy watching other strong men beat the heck out of each other wearing helmets…or swinging bats…or golfclubs. We talk about their "bodies" ( 72 hour disabled list, knees, elbows, surgeries, and steroids, LOL!)and their capabilities. Watching the behavior of men in front of an NFL game on television isn’t much different than going to a pole comp!
ANd…oh my goodness…the locker room at my local Bally’s. It’s worse than a dressing room at a Las Vegas Show! Enough primping, peacocking, and posing to put any all female pole show to shame!
Joel Lessing
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