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Worlds
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So Stephanie…you are saying that the competition was fixed…that the winners were chosen based on politics, money or "who’s girl" they were? That the judges intentionally and unfairly chose the winner without regard to any rules or guidelines but simply because they personally liked or were friends with someone or were told who they had to pick by the organizers?
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I didn’t say the competition was fixed or that the winner didn’t deserve to win,
I am simply trying to understand the choice of the top 13. Maybe there was some unprofessionalism. i dont know. was there?
Im just vocalising/writing out what others have already said…im not the only one.
i figured no one wanted to say anything on here because they didnt want to be confrontational or something.And I stand by my questioning for reasons Im choosing not to disclose because there is no point and since i don’t have proof on paper I’d rather move on than dig holes, but I think i have a right to question it. but you know, i’ve been part of this pole communit for 6 years and i only want to see it succeed and improve. That is the only reason i would challenge anything of this nature, because i dont usually say much. It does not come from a jealous, threatened, mean natured, catty, bitchy, or agressive place. On the contrary.
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Stephanie…see I actually didn’t think that was what you were saying!
However, some people have blatantly stated those exact things that I wrote above. That on top of duragatory name calling!
I understand that a lot of people have questions about the valuation system – that’s fair. However a number of people are not asking respectfully but instead insinuating that comps are fixed.
I find that upsetting and I think that it only makes the situation worse! People aren’t just asking questions..they are making snide comments and innuendos at the same time! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_sad.gif
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As far as I know Empy….no one has made those kinds of remarks here on SV though. I know I read something that was posted to Facebook about Drama and accusations or something to that affect. I wasn’t even aware people were upset about any of the results. I also wasn’t sure which competition was causing all the drama! I’m always so pleased that the members are thoughtful people.
I agree that judges have it rough….but I also don’t always understand their decisions either. Not just with the worlds comp but many others as well https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_scratch.gif Its all so new and still working out the kinks.
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Now I have not watched all of the preliminary performances but I just watched Oona’s and her execution was flawless. There was only one thing that stood out to me but I have no idea what the judges specifically were looking for. Based on what I saw I would also question specifically what she did or did not do that kept her out of the finals. Hopefully she received that feedback from the judges.
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Oona’s performance was amazing – no doubt.
It’s also completely different when you are present watching a performance live. As I pointed out earlier…it may not necessarily have been that she wasn’t good enough but who she was up against within HER round. Since they do tiered rounds with the top 3 from each round going to finals – if she was in a different tier she may have made it to finals.
According to the website in her tier she was beat out by Rafaela, Zoraya and Crystal Lai. That doesnt mean she wasn’t among the top 13 but that she didn’t beat those 3. Now, maybe everyone thinks she was better than the 3 of them too?
And in judging there is always the element of actually being there which makes it completely different. I heard several people say that they were brought to tears by Jenyne’s performance. Jenyne’s video was great but it didn’t bring me anywhere near to crying. Being present you feel and see things differently.
There are many factors that can affect it, including personal taste of each judges – they are after all human.
That doesn’t mean that competitors shouldn’t know the valuation for a competition – they should. They should also be responsible to ASK before they compete if it’s not given to them. For me, the first questions I would have if I disagreed with the results is how does scoring work – not did the judges do something wrong.
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I’d probably say that the proof is in the pudding. lol
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Well definitely the answers to questions may in fact lead to more questions right? I just like to presume the best rather than the worst. We have so many critics of what we do to begin with the last thing we need is to doubt anything about our world! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif
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Without understanding what each competition requires it is difficult for ANYONE to "judge the judges". I did not know that they set it up to choose 3 from each group; I just thought they were put into groupings so that it was more manageable for all concerned. And again, I have not viewed all of the performances.
Another instance of people forming an opinion without having all of the facts.
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I got that from the website but even that was confusing to understand Chemmie.
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Dance is such a tricky medium to judge. Everyone has moves that they like and don’t. Some of us like a more *dancy* performance…others like a more trick based style – so judging strictly on personal opinions or preferences – whether perceived or not, will always come into question. And while I am not a huge fan of the whole *pole in the Olympics wave* I do think that if there are going to be so many high level competitions it might be nice for there to be a set amount of items/tricks/components etc that make up the judging process, much along the lines of gymnastics. Points for hitting certain items: strength moves, spins, flexibility, dance…etc. Artistic flair should most definitely factor into it as well – but if there was some sort of standard it might alleviate some of the questions everyone has.
But honestly who knows LOL maybe there was some sort of judging procedures/guidelines that I am just completely unaware of https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif
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and actually I’d like to correct something that was said: 3 ladies out of each group of 11/12 were picked except for Oona’s group, in which 4 ladies were picked: Zoraya, Raffaela, Crystal, and Anastasia.
Its true that we do not have all the facts here (ie judging criteria) but that doesn’t mean I can’t form an opinion based on what I have seen, and I did watch the entire finals, as well as all the preliminary videos posted on youtube.
I think if you believe in anything blindly it is foolish. Faith and Doubt go hand in hand for a balanced perspective. if we dont have some "doubt" in our world just to keep things in check and challenge ourselves then surely we will fail as a community.
a degree of "Doubt" can be quite healthy….I think it would be foolish of the pole community to be completely trusting and believe that everyone has the best intentions…because our "world" is just the same as everyone else’s world. it is not perfect, and people are not perfect. people are selfish, in the pole world and the real world, and its important not to be naive about it or ignore it, or think that everyone has our best interests at heart.
Its fine to presume the best, i understand what you are saying here and i strive to do the same. however, im not just going to say nothing if something doesn’t seem right. and especially in our community, we should strive for honesty and transparency.
Clearly if enough of us have questions about it then its not clear or transparent enough and we need to understand better and improve the system.
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AH…I hadn’t realized 4 were chosen in that group. Interesting….and that must have been one heck of a group of competitors.
I just want to emphasize that everyone has a right and even a responsibility to question…it’s how it’s done that makes a difference.
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slightly linked to this i think is the question of judge feedback. Friends who competed in national comps (in Europe) requested feedback to find out where they went wrong and what they could do to improve. The feedback was poor to say the least. ‘such a doll’ was one judge’s comment, and ‘see through costume’ was another’s. Such comments can barely be seen as constructive. It makes us lose faith in judging and competition. It also took quite a number of months (yes, MONTHS) for this ‘feedback’ to be emailed through.
They were told they would be marked on dance performance/ musical interpretation and complexity of moves but there was no mention of how well they managed either of these in the feedback, with the exception of 1 reference to a handspring which was described, fairly, as ‘hesitant.’Surely if marking is being done fairly and not just based on subjective opinions there would be actual constructive feedback available? There were required moves; even comments on these, something as simple as feet flexed / hesitant / lopsided would give someone the information require to improve themselves for the next time.
of course what’s done is done. things in the past are gone. but if there is discontent in our community, there are issues that need to be addressed by people organising competitions and competing.
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Hi. For those of you wondering about the valuation and the judging. I did get all information about that in an email from the competition because I was supposed to compete but couldnt make it becasue I didn’t have the money to go =/
I put the judging criteria on my blog if you are interested https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif
Here it is: https://www.studioveena.com/blogs/posts/EvaRut
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