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conflict of interest for instructor to visit competition?
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Charley…hugs. What you said about egos really is true…and if we are honest with ourselves, I doubt a single one of us has evolved past ego. So, we have to try to let ourselves, our teaching, our students, our interactions, our strivings, be ‘enough’ for ourselves. Some students will do their own thing outside of my classes, and that’s ok. As someone who never had the classroom experience either, I did have freedom to learn from whatever sources and not worry about loyalty to a teacher or a studio, and though I like to cultivate relationships with my students and i genuinely care about them, or BECAUSE I care, I have to be ok with them seeking inspiration and instruction elsewhere. I’m grateful this was my experience (though I *did* want a classroom experience, but it wasn’t possible), and I want them to have that freedom too and not feel guilty…. because really it is no different than them taking a traveling instructor workshop–or take classes in another FORM of dance–if I would encourage that, or encourage them to take classes from other teachers in my own studio, or encourage them to explore movement on their own, it is only because I want them to grow as a dancer, just like *I* want to grow as a dancer. And that is the main goal we all share.
I also have learned to think critically through learning from different people–and take everything and put it in the context of ‘this doesn’t suit me’ or ‘this DOES suit me’ and try to leave behind the moves that don’t work for me. I have been at a point for a long time where I don’t try (or even want to try) every move that comes down the pike. If this whole pole journey is a metaphor for living life, that is the same philosophy I try to live by too….I’m not going to try to dabble in everything….I’m not going to ‘mesh’ with everyone…some will be my loyal and loved students (friends) forever, some will be in my life for a season, some will drive me crazy, lol, but I can’t control their actions, only mine…come to think of it, that’s also much like being a PARENT, I would go crazy trying to control my kids actions….so in that light, how can I be the best and most authentic person that *I* can be?
As for cattiness–yes, I have def experienced that in the pole realm. I have experienced that in the another dance realm too. One teacher–whom I took ONE class from–suddenly thought I was ‘hers’, and when I told her I was breaking into teaching, she became very upset and possessive, as if I was going to take ‘her’ students. Not even! We are so different! Which leads back to the scarcity thinking and the insecurity and EGO….it is a vicious cycle. This caused me so much angst. I couldn’t understand how, if I was a part of a community that promoted being so awesome and inclusive and giving, I would be shunned by someone that supposedly was the epitome of that. Then I saw that she isn’t any more ‘enlightened’ than me. Ultimately, we are all human.
Well, there are some of my ramblings…
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As a studio owner/instructor, there is NO WAY I can teach everything that is out there to learn! I encourage students/staff to check out other studios and programs! Everyone has a different style and ability, I believe it is a healthy thing to do! I am not offended if someone chooses to leave my studio, I know my ladies need to grow!!! Also, I don’t know how it works in other states, but in North Dakota, when it comes to Independent contractors for the fitness area of business, if I have an IC, I CAN NOT tell them what they CAN and CAN NOT teach, I CAN NOT schedule their classes,I CAN NOT collect class fees for their students, They have to supply their own curriculum, their own teaching supplies, they CAN NOT use my business name, they MUST have their own insurance etc. I CAN NOT interfere with their business, and they must pay me rent according to a contract that is agreed upon, in this state they are a totally separate business. They have to meet the states criteria for 21 requirements to be an IC. When I 1st opened I did things the way the gyms do, they scheduled everything, collected the fees and paid hourly, well I found out in a hurry that that is NOT AND INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR for fitness/dance activities here. I was contacted by the state to PROVE my IC was indeed independent by qualifying under the 21 requirements, needless to say they didn’t and I paid a penalty as employer that was “trying to avoid” paying taxes, unemployment insurance, workers comp etc. I have only paid employees. I still want them to go out and learn what they can, it only enhances what there confidence, and gives them something to keep for themselves as they give so much to my studio and students!!! LEARNING from others is a WONDERFUL THING!!! 🙂
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So, most of the people that have spoken up are at independent studios. If you are an instructor at a chain I guess the rules are completely different. I don’t agree but in a way I kind of see their point. When you pay for a name you have to play by their rules. Yet another reason to really think about becoming an instructor.
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@Chemmie – I have worked for a chain pole dance studio and I loved it. We were provided with everything we needed and she rarely asked us for our energy – which was so nice in many ways. I don’t remember there ever being a rule about going to other studios but we certainly signed non-disclosures which seemed fair since it was her material. I prefer to teach my own stuff but teaching her stuff was really fun and honestly it was sooo much easier in a lot of ways.
@Sparrow – I know it’s hard when you establish a long term relationship with someone and they/you decide to experiment outside of that. I will say one advantage to staying out of studios as a teacher is that I never worry about “copying” anyone because I can honestly say I have no idea what they do – I don’t look at their sites or even their youtubes unless a video features a friend. Being a part of studios is exactly why I feel so conflicted. In the beginning we just shared and it was fun, then it became all of this conflict of interest, which I didn’t believe in until it happened to me. I love how we preach community until we begin making money off pole. UGH. I am right there with you, sister.
@lilbit – if more people realized what you do we wouldn’t have the “cattiness” and “stealing.” I love it when any business tries to get an IC to sign a non-compete – hahahahaha! I’ve been an IC in MANY fields and I always liken being an IC to being a “rogue” lol! In the real world IC stuff I’ve done they’ve only made us sign non-disclosure specific to discussing the work/equipment or business secrets we may know. AND – I’m sorry you had IRS trouble. I would only do paid employees too.
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One thing I like about my state is that it’s “A right to work” state. You can try to have a non compete agreement but it won’t hold up in court here! LOL I don’t make my employees sign a non compete, I feel everyone should have a right to do what is the best fit for them. My employment agreement is pretty simple, show up 15 minutes early to get your materials ready, teach the curriculum provided (I wrote all of it for each level, so that way when an instructor needs to fill in for someone that’s off or ill, they can pick up the book and know who should be there and what the lesson is for that day.), and collect when needed, tidy the classroom, restock it, and report any issues to me. This stuff with stealing or coping I think is ridiculous, because we all learned from someone or somewhere, even those of us that learned on our own saw it somewhere. I teach Veena’s method for the most part, that is the highest compliment I feel I can pay someone. I would also except it as such and not a slap in the face.
I am not as “involved” in the “community” as I once was, I don’t have time for petty stuff that does take place. I focus all my time and energy into my students and staff 🙂 Charley if you ever make it to Fargo, North Dakota you MUST drop in!!
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From the law student perspective, I actually find it confusing when studio owners ask their instructors to sign non-compete agreements, which will only be upheld if you can prove them to be reasonable in scope and duration, which means in the best of circumstances you may have to argue in court to uphold it, yet they don’t have them sign a non-disclosure agreement, which is easier to uphold and much more directly addresses the concern of protecting your intellectual property. With a non-compete, you are basically crossing your fingers and hoping no one will force you to defend it. With a solid non-disclosure agreement, it’s much more likely to be enforceable, and you can do a liquidated damages clause that basically outlines for the signee exactly what the consequences are for taking your trademarks elsewhere. Shit, you could even put an arbitration clause in there and keep the cost way, way down if you did have to enforce it. It strikes me as a more effective limitation in theory to do all this through a solid NDA than a questionably-enforceable non compete.
And as an aside, attorneys are not allowed to sign non-compete agreements. While it would be arguable that a non-compete for a pole instructor position wouldn’t conflict with my duty, for me, there’s always that possibility that those spheres will collide. (Like an attorney serving as head of HR in a company, you might sometimes wear more than one hat in giving advice.) So I simply am not willing to sign a non-compete in any capacity, because if the legal professional and fitness professional spheres ever collided and I had signed a non-compete that became an issue, it’s only me that has to answer to the bar association for my license and not anyone else. By comparison, a non disclosure agreement is perfectly allowable for me to sign in any capacity. I don’t know if there are any other professions that place restrictions on the ability to sign a non-compete, and it’s not an immediate concern for me right now since I’m still in law school, but it’s a serious enough concern that I think is worth bringing up. -
The entertainment industry is famous for non-competes. When I was a radio personality I was required to sign them all the time. They were generally unreasonable which meant that arguing for a better severance was an option. Usually they 6-12 months and 60 miles, we would usually get a severance to of about half – so 3-6 months pay. Using that as a model I would argue it’s unfair to require a non-compete without a severance package.
An NDA makes so much more sense.
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omg unless she pays you the big bucks do wtf you want
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haha! Olivia, you make me laugh. I love how you put things into perspective and just tell it like it is.
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Coming from a student’s prospective, I can say I don’t feel my pole studio challenges me enough, in way of growth or techniques. In order to grow as a pole dancer, I have to look outside of my studio and visit other studios (mainly outside of the state) to get a different prospective on what I need. For example, the owner of my pole studio does not “do” tricks per say, but will “talk” you through a certain trick you are trying to learn and will spot you. I am a visual learner and need someone to “show” me what I’m doing or not doing in order for it to “click” for me. The studio owner also does alot of “routines” and don’t provide an open studio for sometimes “months”. Seriously. So, what I find myself doing is meeting with another instructor that once taught at the “competition” and then rent the pole studio outside of normal hours (at 20/hr) and do a pole jam twice a week. How is this fair to me as the student, who also pays a monthly fee for “unlimited classes”, but can not get assistance in learning tricks? Granted I have a small pole room in my home, but I don’t have a mat, nor anybody to spot me. I would much rather be around people who can critique me so I can correct it right then and there.
Granted, my pole studio felt I was ready to “compete” and it wasnt until I visited another pole studio outside of my state that really told me I needed more work on my transitions and techniques. I spent three privates (at my own expense) with a competition coach at this studio in three days while I was visiting and I still wasnt ready. I felt my home studio should have provided some type of “competition workshop” if I was to represent the studio, but I had to go outside of my home studio just to know what a real competition entailed. And I tell you, it was real eye opener. My home studio has only ONE instructor that does most of the pole tricks, but I believe she was self taught.
I’m sorry for the long post, but I want it to be seen from the student prospective.
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Candi Pole, as far as training for competitions, if I have a student that is interested, I recommend a comp coach. I am not a competitor. I’m not by any means discounting your feelings/frustrations 🙂 However if you look at bodybuilding for example, gyms in general don’t specialize in training for comps for bikini, figure, fitness, or bodybuilding. They give recommendations for private coaches, and it is a HUGE investment (here some of the private coaches for BB start at $1500 for a month of training). The one on one time involved and diet, nutrition are also factors.
I know for myself my studio is just helping open up the world of pole for ladies in my community, to get a great workout, have fun, and meet other women they can share this with. I would love to see some pole professionals address this topic. There are a few studios in the US that DO specifically train for comps. I don’t, and do not advertise that I do. I think when someone is looking for a studio, they need to ask allot of questions, and make it known specifically what their needs are. Best of luck to you! Happy poling! 🙂
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Where I teach, we do offer competition and performance oriented training for anyone who wants it. But the brass ring is owned by Melissa Schrader, who has placed in national level competitions, and the entire teaching staff is composed of experienced performers, so that’s just naturally a part of the studio identity that we support those who wish to compete (as well as those who don’t!). We also know that not every studio caters to the specific needs of dancers preparing for competition.
There’s no disrespect for any other studios, and no “sales pitch” to try to get a student to quit their current studio and “switch.” In fact there are several regular students in our ranks who regularly train at other studios as well and so far that relationship has been peaceable.
Maybe some of this is just because we are in the Chicago area where there are MANY options for pole and aerial training, so there’s an assumption that any skilled dancers who seek us out for advanced training will have an existing background with another studio and that’s something that deserves respect.
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As mentioned earlier (can’t believe it was 4 years ago! LOL) I encourage my instructors to train elsewhere. We are strong enough not to be threatened by that but instead to see it as a way of growth. We have always had a few students who cross train too.
However, any studio owner has the right to set their policies as they see fit. I think it’s important for an employee to find out those policies before they take a position with a studio because that is part of what determines your “fit” with that studio.
The problem with NDA is that there is very little that is protected. Not to challenge law with PDR but I don’t see either an NDA or a non-compete as being very useful unless they are used correctly then either can be good to have in place if that sort of thing matters to you.
A non-compete that is within reason can be upheld. I believe the standard is around 15 miles and 1 year in Illinois?
And an NDA can only refer to your exact class curriculum and only then if it’s patented correct? To my understanding you can’t patent a move, or even a sequence of moves. Nor can you patent the tips you give when teaching a trick.
I teach multi-level classes so I have a series of moves which I teach in a specific order depending on what level the student is working at. I would have to prove that even that is something unique that no one else anywhere is using.
Proving you invented or created something is pretty difficult in performance arts because someone is likely doing the same thing elsewhere.
So if I understand it correctly the only thing you can really copyright are things like the choreography of an entire performance piece from beginning to end. Even exact portions of it are not protected unless they are more than a certain percentage? (PDR do I have this correct?)
So in my view it comes down to this…if you aren’t secure enough to deal with one of your instructors or students learning elsewhere or a studio opening near you then you really shouldn’t be in business. You could own McDonalds and a Burger King can open on the next block…deal with it! Real businesses do all the time!
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Thanks poledanceromance for your input! You addressed some of the issue with training for comps. I am the 1st pole studio in the state of North Dakota, I have been open almost 4 years now, one other studio opened about a year after me 3 hours away. Because we are in our infancy here, we do not have access like larger cities. We also can not afford to bring in comp qualified people. We hope at some point in our growth that pros will want to come here to teach. You could say that we are not “really” a part of the pole “community” as no one except David C. Owen and “Veena” (Julie, who are both dear friends) have supported our studio by coming here. Though I do not provide that level of training, I work more than full time to provide the BEST I can in safe teaching to and for my instructors and students. Location, population, interest, and finance all play a factor in what I as a studio am able to provide. Cheers! 🙂
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And I would like to encourage everyone to go back and read what Litlbit posted a couple of days ago…this is REALITY and very few practice this way! Protecting your business is much more than keeping your instructors and students away from other studios!
We have had a lot of calls from studios recently who have been challenged by the IRS and are now facing penalties and changing over to employee based studios. It’s nearly impossible to run a pole studio with ICs if you follow the law and the 21 points Litlbit refers to!
And for Gods sake…get an accountant or an attorney and stop listening to your friends or asking for advice on Facebook about the legalities of setting up your business! (end rant)
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