StellarMotion
Forum Replies Created
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PoleSkivvies, you’re welcome. And there was something else I forgot to mention. After having a decent practice on the chrome X-pole, the next time I get on the brass pole to perform or just to play, I feel like a superhero capable of absolutely everything, because all of the moves feel so much easier. For example, I’ve finally progressed to where I can do a controlled slide from the teddy bear while on chrome X-pole, which is major progress from the dead drop that my attempts at teddy bear were before. But now, when I’m on brass, I feel like I could sit in the teddy bear forever and just read the newspaper or have a coffee. Maybe your stainless steel pole will turn you into a superhero once you get onto the pole you favor!
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The pole that I learned on is the pole in my profile pictures, the brass pole which is slightly over two inches in width. So I can tell you that after my chrome X-pole was set up here at home, I thought I had really done something awful. For all the advanced tricks I had learned on the brass pole at the bar, I really thought that the most advanced move I could do on X-pole was a ballet hook from the floor.
I have grown to like my chrome X-pole very much though! It took time, practice, patience, and research to learn how to adjust to the grip of the chrome X-pole, and now I can do all of the same moves on X-pole that I do on the brass pole at the bar. I do find, though, that the brass pole is not as predisposed toward friction burns as X-pole is, after X-pole gets very warm. In summary, I guess I’ve found that brass does not drop you when its cold, nor does it hold you hostage when its hot, but my chrome X-pole does both.
With all that said, now that I know how to get better use out of my X-pole, I’m in love with it and recommend X-pole to anyone that is interested in having a pole.
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Hi Voodoochild! I experience pain in the exact same location. Part of it, for me, had to do with my posture while I was at work. I have worked as a bartender for some while which has required me to spend a fair amount of time bent over a short sink sanitising bar-glasses. But I found out that there was another part to it and it had to do with my contortion training, especially backward stretching. I have found that by using lower-intensity stretches for the hip flexors and lower back, but just prolonging them a little or doing more sets of less lengthy and intense stretches, my left sciatic nerve has inflamed less and does not cry out in despair in quite the same way. I have also had some success at alleviating sciatic nerve pain by doing hip stretches, such as resting my left ankle on my right knee and leaning forward into it.
I really think that (in addition to my work) the main cause of the extreme sciatica was the way that I was doing backward stretches for the hip flexors and lower back. I have learned how to do other stretches for those same areas which seem to be less taxing on the hip joints but which also seem to be just as effective. Do you think you could be doing something similar with your stretching? I know that sciatica is a horrible kind of pain, and that its very limiting for many activities and prevents enjoyment. Here’s hoping for a quick resolution to your discomfort!
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Thanks Roxy for posting that! That was in StudioVeena’s paleo-David times so I didn’t realise there was a discussion thread about it! I loved reading the things going through people’s heads to come up with names for their poles. I was interested in your permanent stage name too… I tried really hard but just couldn’t come up with one at all, so I perform under the name "David." LOL, if that isn’t the flaming abyss where creativity was plunged.
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I knew I needed a name for my pole so I just kept asking the X-pole (50mm Chrome) "What is your name?" I know, I’m a total psycho. But this is the way I have always named all my pets, even those who obviously have never been named before. I just ask their name and wait until the name emerges organically and spontaneously.
After about a week the name that came to me was Francine. I think it fits. Somewhat regal, perhaps reserved, not particularly sexy by any means, but full of activity beneath the lovely surface. Some other people don’t like that Francine is my X-pole’s name, and they feel I should have chosen something sexier, manlier, or more dominating. But Francine suits me just fine and we have a fine relationship when she’s not being slippery. Oops! https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_redface.gif
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Oh, very interesting, Empyrean, I had never seen the leg switch version. Good research!
The main thing I noticed is that with the leg switch version, the need for the body twist during the fall is not necessary and there’s no turning, but without the leg switch the whole body passes across the pole before securing in the Scorpio. I don’t understand how the lady doing the leg switch Holly Drop was able to avoid slamming her side into the pole!
I don’t know if I would consider that a Holly Drop for sure. It’s a very impressive and pretty move, but the technique and landing are different than the original one. If I am not mistaken about the origins of the Holly Drop, it was first seen on YouTube being performed by a lady identified as "Tattooed Hollie," on a channel that I think is called "mrandmrsburroughs" or something of the sort. Karol of the REDKE71 YouTube channel and our current reigning Miss USPDF East Coast adopted and perfected the move, and named it the Holly Drop after Tattooed Hollie. If anyone knows the Holly Drop history better, please feel free to correct me.
Some key points about the leg switch variation: 1.) the leg switch was performed before this lady released the pole. While her top arm was still on the pole, she placed her lower hand on the pole too, performed the leg swtich, and dropped after hooking with the second leg. So except for some possible rib bruising, it sounds pretty safe. But nonetheless, this modified Holly Drop is a drop from a lower leg hook, instead of an upper leg hook. 2.) taking into consideration that the legs have to be swtiched before the hands are released, dropping out of a knee hold or Cupid/Star would be obsolete. It might be more intuitive to do this variation from a modified pole sit, a plank, or some other position where the legs are already placed where they would need to be located in order to drop into a Scorpio from the lower leg instead of the higher leg.
God, I feel like such a Poindexter. LOL! Geez, without a pole I’d have no life. Just more fuel for my poisonously analytical mind.
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oh awesome, I thought Sissy was the only pole dancing Santa Claus around here.
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Hi Jeng! I haven’t found any tutorials for it, only a few good demonstrations. Like you, I had to figure this out myself. I will try my hardest to break it down. Try transitioning from the point where you have a single leg hooked around the pole, the lower leg straightened and extended behind the pole into the Scorpio several times very slowly, using hands on the pole to guide you, before you attempt to drop into this move. That will get you acquainted with where you need to turn and twist. Essentially even though it looks like there’s a thigh hold, when its performed as a drop, the free leg swings so quickly that there is no time to really do a thigh hold. You are relying on the momentum generated by the fall to position you where you’ll need to be to grip the pole with your hip and underarm in the Scorpio position.
After you grab the pole with your higher hand to exit your knee hold or Cupid/Star and extend the free leg behind the pole, you can then release the arm holding the pole, but be ready to really swing it and your free leg. That swing is going to get your limbs in place. Swing the free leg back while swinging both of the arms around. You will make a full wheel with your holding arm, and it is going to be this arm whose underside rests against the pole when you finally get into Scorpio. Your free leg will cross the pole and be on the opposite side of its starting position, and it will shift your weight poleward. There is going to be a moment before your hip and underarm are on the pole that there is some slipping, and yes it does drag the hooking thigh across the pole for a couple inches in a way that can be painful. But then this can be true of any drop move and is not unique to the Holly Drop.
It’s a very hard move to try to break down, even though it happens in less than a second’s time. That’s probably the reason that tutorials are not available, because making one would be an almost impossible task. I broke it down as best I could in text and even re-reading what I’ve just put down I’m not sure it communicates what needs to be communicated. Ultimately I think you have to develop a feeling for it by doing it slowly with your hand as a guide, maybe adding speed to it, and then later trying it as a drop.
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In addition to the excellent comments everyone else has already made, I want to share that my thigh holds had stopped hurting some time ago and recently began hurting again. I feel there are a couple of vital reasons for this.
1.) As the weather has cooled significantly the air has become dryer, which means my skin is liable to be dryer and therefore more vulnerable to friction burns.
2.) I usually do my poling when the steam radiators at my apartment are on. This means that extra humidity is in the room at that time and the pole is liable to become very warm at the higher parts, and these factors can lead to extra skin irritation from pole friction.
Just tonight, TrophyWife asked me to try the Allegra in chat for the first time. One gets into this move from Scorpio. Just from the five or six Scorpios I did to get into the Allegra while I was practicing it, I now have visible thigh bruises which are sensitive to the touch! In other climate conditions I feel like my thighs can take any amount of abuse, though. So chances are in addition to being newer to pole, that the weather and room conditions can contribute to pole related pains too.
Veena gently reminded me that its important to use moisturiser on my typically dryer skin, to help protect it and also to help with grip. So I use some moisturiser after every bath or shower, and also if I think about it I moisturise a little a few hours before I plan to get on the pole, which gives me enough time to absorb all the moisturiser and rub off whatever cannot be absorbed, so that it doesn’t leave my skin slippery and make my poling dangerous. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif
It can also help to get off the pole for a few minutes to let it cool, so that it isn’t quite as sticky. During that time you can practice some floorwork and transition moves, do some stretching and flexibility training while your body is very warm, or just to have a glass of water to help keep yourself hydrated during your pole workout! Pole dancing is very tough on the skin, so taking some extra care of your skin to thank it for all it does, not the least of which being helping to keep you on the pole, is smart and may help improve your pole experience!
And if all else fails, the season will change and probably be more accommodating to your poling. I expect you and I both will hurt less come Spring, and by next Winter even though there may be some sting, you’ll be less vulnerable than you were this Winter.
Also your type of pole can be a factor. I’ve heard Veena saying that she loves her new titanium gold finished X-pole, but that it leaves her with friction burns sometimes. I’m using a Chrome finished X-pole at home. But when I took my X-pole to a nightclub to perform on it recently, in a very cool, somewhat humid condition, I didn’t hurt at all. It only hurts me at home! I think weather and climate control variations have everything to do with pole pain. Maybe you can experiment with your heating/cooling at home to see if modifications to it change the feeling of pole on your thighs. I’m thinking of trying to keep a space heater nearby when I pole so I won’t have to rely on the steam radiators, for example. Good luck and please don’t give up!
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Hi friends. I wanted to post again to let you know that I did read your responses even though I didn’t respond in a timely way! Truth is I was flying into a mad fury every time I would think of this, so I was trying to keep it out of my mind. But I’ve relaxed now, even though I still recall the event with some angst.
Mini, you’re right, but since I know the emcee of that show I doubt anything different would happen. She knew where the pole was located, yet she still insisted that the floor be prepared in the usual way, which would obscure the view of the pole and anyone on it for guests and audience members alike. It’s a confirmation of my original intuition that I should have declined to perform for this particular event, but I was so eager to be on the pole for an audience that I ignored my gut instinct.
Thanks Roxy, for your optimistic perspective. And yes, I’m confident that after pulling that off, I can perform under any circumstances no matter how terrible. Haha!
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Hi Carrie,
The way I finish a shoulder mount is to basically do a pelvic lift. I pull my hips closer to the pole, so that I can get my legs further on it, without changing the position of the rest of my torso, until my legs are at least partly in place.
I agree with what blueeyes said. There is a moment where your legs are just on the pole enough to help hold you, even though they’re not totally secure, and this coincides with the moment that the hand grip is not totally secure. There is a fear barrier to get over and it has to do with trusting your pole and your body enough to be willing to take the little risk and show yourself its possible. Use a spotter or some cushions if it helps you feel safer. You’ll have this in no time.
(Although I still haven’t got a forward roll! Any pointers blueeyes?)
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Hi Carrie.
I think that Empyrean’s comments were excellent, and I don’t have too much to add, but I wanted to chime in on this because I had this very same problem for a long time, and to such a degree, that I eliminated the shoulder mount from my collection of moves entirely for a long period. Once I got to the top of the shoulder mount position I would begin to feel unstable, scared, and not know what to do next. So once the anxiety settled in at the top of the shoulder mount, I would ferociously grab for the pole with my legs in order to avoid the feeling like I was falling.
I’ve recognised a few reasons why this was so. The first one is that I was afraid of the pain that would be caused by rolling over my collar bone to finish the inversion, and I didn’t know how to perform this mount without doing that yet. I didn’t know that once I had my legs on the pole, I could tilt my hips toward the pole and push away from it with my arms, so that my collar bone wouldn’t have to support the weight of my entire body for that moment. The second reason had to do with my grips. Sometimes I would be using momentum to perform this inversion, which meant that once the momentum became inert, I was relying on my hand grip no matter what position I was in, even if it wasn’t prepared. In other cases, I relied on my body weight counterbalanced against my palms on the pole, so that once I had come out the upside of the Shoulder Mount there was less weight on my palms and therefore less friction, so my grip did not feel safe anymore. In this situation, I would do the same as before, grab desperately with the legs in a way that was ugly, uncontrolled, and not really even efficient in terms of balance or safety. Additionally, when I would do this, I would put both of my legs on the opposite side of the pole in exactly the way Empyrean wisely cautions us not to do! Last, I really didn’t have good ideas about transitions from the shoulder mount. Even though I knew how to use some inverted positions, I didn’t know how to get into them from the shoulder mount. If only I had so much nice guidance when I was learning this and other moves… *sigh*. The smart solution in both cases was a stalled hold at the top of the shoulder mount, where my torso would be about 45 degrees of the pole and my legs would form a V parallel the floor.
From that stalled point, which is exactly the one you described earlier with the V legs, I found that for myself the best way to finish the inversion is to put my legs on the pole in exactly the way that you and Empyrean describe. Then I can tilt my hips forward/upward some more, without rolling my torso up any further, to secure my leg grip; and then I can push myself off of the pole with my arms and arch my back so that I don’t roll over my collar bone. I have also found that shoulder mounting directly into a Tammy (inverted thigh hold) is just as easy and comfortable as using the inverted crucifix; and that for myself, it is easier to get from a Tammy into whatever other position I would like to use than it is to transition out of a crucifix hold. Technically it is also possible to shoulder mount directly into a Gemini, Scorpio, or a Brass Monkey, but these can be very awkward feeling if you’re not already comfortable with the regular shoulder mount into inverted crucifix or Tammy. I only shoulder mount to inverted crucifix if I plan to caterpillar right away, otherwise I shoulder mount directly to Tammy because it is easier for me to get into other positions from the Tammy leg position than from the crucifix leg position.
Just recently, also, I have begun shoulder mounting with the thumb of my right hand turned upward! This was very hard to get used to, but the coolest thing about this is that now that I’m a little more accustomed to it than before, I can shoulder mount directly into the twisted grip Aysha or straight edge, just by dropping my lower bracket (left hand for me) after I get my legs on the pole! I know it sounds like such a minor modification, but right now I’m really excited about what such a tiny modification has enabled me to do. But mind you, if I don’t plan to Aysha right away, I still prefer to shoulder mount with both thumbs down. You could use the figurehead move to experiment with hand grips. Quite honestly I think the figurehead is a beautiful and underused move anyway and I love doing variations and exaggerations of that move. Its a great way to prep for a shoulder mount if you’re strong enough to do the mount after holding that position for a few moments.
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Here’s the method I used to get into this pose.
From a pole sit, I duck my torso down as far as I can get it, and put my lower hand on the pole first. I then arch my back as far as I can get it, using my lower hand to guide my torso position, and reach for the pole with my top hand. With both my hands on the pole, I pull myself up and around a little, to twist so that my back is on the pole, and not my side/hip, and then position my top arm with bicep on the pole. Then I straighten out my legs, which slightly slows the spin while locking the body in place, and then let go with my lower hand. It’s rough, so if any of you know an easier way to get into this pose I’d love to try it. Otherwise I’ll have to keep using this method until I can get it looking a little bit more graceful!
Am loving this move right now, though!
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Thanks, Allegra! I think that name sounds great.
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Glad to make your acquaintance. Sorry I confused you with someone else, I just saw a similar hair colour and style, plust the mile-long legs, and thought it may be the same person. If it means anything, she was lovely. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif
But I think I have an idea of what you’re describing in terms of the differences between where men’s and women’s strength lies. So if balance is the keyword with the overhand grip, ones weight is primarily placed on the lower bracket, and the top hand is doing more stabilising of the body weight rather than helping to hold it. Am I warm at all? I have grown accustomed to the idea that in most grips, inverted or upright, the higher bracket carries most of the weight and the lower bracket primarily pushes the body away from the pole rather than holding it up. This might possibly be one of the reasons I have not been successful in my previous attempts at overhand grips.
To answer your question, in the overhand grip, I felt as though my top hand was going to slip. I think this is a question of finger strength, perhaps, more so than that of the arm. Because my thumb and forefinger are naturally stronger than my other fingers, I think the split and twisted grips feel more secure. The thumb down in the lower bracket supports and pushes the weight of my body up, while the thumb up in the top bracket of those holds enables that grip to more efficiently pull, direct, and control the movements and balance checks involved, since in an inversion, the top part of the higher bracket would be subject to more force than the lower part of the higher bracket. I hope I am making sense, sometimes I lose myself in complexity.
I have never tried an inverted grip with both thumbs up, though…! How interesting. I have only done spins, climbs, and choppers that way. I would imagine I would feel kind of unstable in the lower bracket with the thumb facing up regardless of what my top hand did, though I have never tried. In my next practice I’ll be sure to try some of these grip variations. I wanted to have a practice tonight but the apartment feels too cold and so do my muscles. https://www.studioveena.com/img/smilies/icon_cry.gif
I might private message you to let you know how it comes out! Please feel free to share any suggestions you have so that I can get the most benefit out of this grip; I’d be grateful.
