[abcollins1]

Look, im sorry my answers are not popular, im sorry that people seem to think that they know more than they do and are not willing to admit that this puts them out of their scope of knowledege.

But I have answered op's question several times over.

She asked Specifically about wanting to add protein powders for 1)recovery and 2) muscle building.

1) protein powders are not a recovery aid any more than chicken or beef is and

2) it is not going to help build muscles without being in a calorie surplus, without hitting other macros and without being on a progressive training program.

 

As the conversation progressed we discovered:

Op has past history of ED

OP is on Paleo type diet (restrictive eating patterns)

OP is skipping breakfast (does not matter if tied to ED or not, still an issue)

OP wants to stay lean

Specifically OP wants to take protein powders at nearly 10pm

 

So does OP NEED to add in protein powder????? No.

BEFORE adding in ANY supplements, first look at diet. Why does op feel the need to add in protein, because she doesnt think she is hitting her protein levels, but is skipping meals. FIX: eat more protein at breakfast and there should be no need to eat after last pole class. All of this talk about magic "windows" is debunked. As long as she is getting proper cal levels any time during the day, she is not going to go into a catabolic state and start eating at muscle tissue. 2000 cals during the day is 2000 cals no matter how you chop them up or when you eat them. The body is not on any kind of "clock" it doesnt know what time it is,

On top of that it is VERY VERY EXTREMELY difficult to work out to such an extent to completely deplete muscle glycogen to the point you would need to eat any specific thing. Typically you have to structure a diet and training program SPECIFICALLY around muscle depletion. On top of that, the body has a harder time converting protein into glycogen, so carbs would be your best bet to restore glycogen (and is usually what it manipulated in order to deplete said glycogen). I can promise that even a pole class is not enough to deplete glycogen enough to warrant needing to eat specifically for that reason.

Now, to the fact of the ED, OP needs to seek out her professionals to determine if she is ready to take the step to muscle building, which requires EATING above maintenance, gaining weight, counting calories, etc….. As we do not have the experience or knowledge to say if this path is right for op at this time, the correct thing to do is to have her ask her team this, NOT to provide a bunch of info that has nothing to do with OP's situation or goals (stated goal of building muscle).

Now, I hope i have made my points clear as to why op needs to focus on whole foods and why op needs to speak with her professionals. Its all well and good to say i take this and that, but there are other things op needs to look at BEFORE supplementing.

[abcollins1]

I understand you want to research, i understand that its all really expensive, but the thing is, that we really are not qualified to give you what you want. Without knowing key factors, your current diet, workout schedule, past triggers, your weight, height age, body composition, health issues…… it doesnt matter what we have done personally.

The things that I would tell a person without an ed are not things that YOU specifically need to be doing. Usually I would tell someone wanting to add muscle to up cals and weigh either weekly or monthly to control rate of gain. This is obviously something that triggers you and needs to be accounted for. In order to gain muscle you have to monitor it, you need to know cals and macros, you need to be on a good progressive program. And this goes into changing your body, how it looks how it feels.

Me I just came off a 12 month muscle building time, gained 20 pounds, i look much different than i did a year ago and now need to pull it back another 10 pounds, this is the cycle that normally happens. One which may or may not cause issues with an ED, which is why i am saying

You need to be on a diet plan'

You need to be on a training Plan

This needs to be done with and by someone who has experience in working with ED and who can monitor you and get you to your goals safely.

Is it going to cost more?? Yes, but you have a condition which requires, even in recovery, special attention to more than just "eat more and train" which is what is needed.

Whatever I do or what anyone else does here, doesnt matter in what YOU have to deal with or need to do.

The 2 links i provided will give you plenty of info on supplements and why most of them are not needed. Unless you have your diet on point, you dont need protein. If your diet is not on point, this means correct calorie and macro nutrient levels, then that is the first thing you "fix". Hoewever, counting cals, counting macros is not something i can advise you to do with an ED, again why it should be monitored by an RD.

You may be in recovery, and i am really glad, but this is the type of lifestyle that attracts and retriggers people with ED's because it can get to a point where it justifes old habits. All the countig all the monitoring, all the workiing out and training.

 As you said, you are more like an alcoholic in this, where one drink can send them down. Im not saying its impossible, but it would be  best not to take this on on your own, even finding a personal trainer who has experience would be better.

I know lots of programs and diets, building muscle/losing fat, that is all my job is…but none of them are going to be truly safe or healthy when dealing with an ED unless you have experienced help.

Whether you need to add protein, when where and what, those are questions that should be asked of someone who knows way more of your situation, I do not think that is wasting either your time or your doctor;s time, that is their job to guide you.

 

 

[abcollins1]

Actually you should read what i wrote, i answered her question and then she posted her history of ED, at which point every post i replied to her encouraged her to ask the people she worked with.

You responded to questions which had all ready been answered without looking at her posts, which means you completely missed the ED history, then you proceed to say well i take this for these reasons… when if you had read OP doesnt need to listen to us, she needs to speak to her own team.

You keep going on about stuff that doesnt matter and there is no way to know what is in the supplements you take, even if it is labled 100% whole or whatever.

Yes she is an adult but so are you and you should take something like this more seriously, ED's are nothing to be played with and just say "well she should know better" is irresponsiple and dangerous. She needs more help and support than these boards can give, and for her, seeking out her own team off these boards is the best. No other suggestions should be made even if it is what "you do"…

[abcollins1]

Im not sure you really have researched the supplement industry if you think they list all of their ingredients and that they are healthy and will not harm you.

You see, a few months ago, Jacked and Oxy Elite Pro were forced to change their product ingredients because they were linked to deaths. They were banned by the FDA from using DMAA. Now both products contain Yohimbine, which is a whole other box of worms. These were both extremely popular products that people assumed were safe. Same was done with Ephedra and HCG…..

Also,most companies do not list the ingredients (nor is there any law or regulation making them do so), usually they chalk it up to "propietry blend" and you have no idea what you are really taking or how much. They are also well know to throw illegal substances in their products without labeling it (and this is how many bodybuilders test positive for drugs when they did not take them, they only took a supplement.)

Again I have to point out that OP has a past history of ED and unless you have experience with supplements and treating those with an ED, it is inappropriate to do anything but point her to ask her questions to her professionals which would have a much better grasp of what OP needs in terms of diet, supplements, and health.

[abcollins1]

I will give you two links that explain supplements well, and i suggest spending a lot of time on the site as well. Lyle is the bomb and really knows his stuff, his books are really great too if you are looking for more in depth info on the body.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/supplements-part-1.html

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/supplements-part-2.html

 

[abcollins1]

I say the BCAA's are ineffective because if you are all ready consuming them in food, then mega dosing with them as a supplemnt is useless. Studies show they are only effective when a low protein diet is used, and if you are taking protein shakes and otherwise have a diet high in protein (ie, meeting or exceeding your needs) then the supplement is just a waste of money (as most supplements are).

Supplements are a big business, they are unregulated, and you have no idea what you are getting in them (dosage or ingredient wise). Your best bet is to take as little supplements as you can and to eat as much real wholesome food as you can,

I would be very hessitant to suggest anything other than whole food to a person who has a past history of ED. They have a lot more issues to deal with than to waste time, money and energy, on supplements that is not needed for anyone really.

[abcollins1]

http://www.jissn.com/content/10/1/5

Studies support that overall calorie intake is more important than any nutrient timing, Also the whole ED thing supports this as well.

BCAA's also not effective.

[abcollins1]

Even in women without ed's the gain is hard and the concept of gaining some fat freaks them out. I see lots of it all the time, where girls will claim they want to gain muscle, gain 2 pounds, freak out, and then slash cals and add in cardio until they lose the 2 pounds. Then they wonder why they never get the results they want 6 months later.

This is also where you get the "im a hard gainer" or "i just put on fat when i up my cals" (none of wich is true). Its hard to convince women to eat to gain muscles.

So really its a mental issue of coming to terms that your body will change, the scale will go up, you will not stay lean, and some fat will come. Usually this is a process where you gain and then lose, but again, its not something i can advise you on with an ed history.

Typically, if i have a client with an ED history, I work with their MD and RD and will not work with clients who do not have that support. Its also not something I  would do over the internet. Im not trying to be offensive, its just a whole other ball game that requires more than just giving a plan to someone and letting them go. Even though I am not a MD, i take 'do no harm" seriously.

If you have a team al ready, then i would say the best place to ask your question and get guidence is your team. They would know your situation better and would be better informed to give you the answers you need.

Hugs and good luck!!

[abcollins1]

Having an ED past is a tricky thing, because as you are aware, you are never really "cured". And the thing is to gain muscle, you have to eat at a surplus which does mean some fat gains. This doesnt mean it will need to be a ton of fat, but you are not going to be able to "stay lean" and gain any real amount of muscle. Women can only gain around 5 pounds in a year, and that is if everything it done perfectly.

Typically you will look to see a around a 1.5 to 2 pound gain a month. And with your ED past, it might not be wise to do this without some help.

I would advise to seek out professional help to get to your goals. You do not want to trigger any past habits and you want to stay healthy but adding muscle is a hard, slow process and is not easy even without an ED.

To answer your questions: A protein shake can help to get cals in, but you need to be more focused on eating whole real foods and not relying on shakes to make up calories at this point. You do not have to eat "straight after a workout", hitting your cals and macro needs is more important to you now than timing.

I can not advise too much more than to seek help IRL with professionals. This type of lifestyle usually attratcs and can make EDs "reappear" and I doubt many here, if any, are qualified to give more specific advise over the net.

[abcollins1]

Squats and deadlifts dont exactly cross over to pole specific movements well. Yes they are a traditional strengthening exercise and one of the best, but when talking about transferring that strength to pole work, its not quite the same movement.

I think Koi and i have the same ideas. An L sit or straddle hold on the floor would be a more pole specific move (and i believe that is what she is describing in her post). I dont care how many squats you do those suckers are hard!! and they must be specifically trained for. I have been training them for a while because i have been working towards fitness competition routines and it is one of the required moves.  And if i forget to train them, i lose it and have to start over again.

[abcollins1]

If you have super tight hammies, then straightening your leg out would be painful/not able to happen. The correction is stretching them often until they become more flexible, less tight. Forward bends and other hammie stretching exercises i would say 3 or 4 times a week.

Another thing may be over all core strength (not just abs) or hip flexor strength. Correction for that would be off pole strengthening exercises for hip flexors and core (to include shoulder girdle, back, hips. glutes and abs)…Im a big believer in cross training to improve performance specific goals.

[abcollins1]

I use a few supplemements, but specifically protein powder wise, I use optimum nuttitions Gold Standard Whey and when cutting cals, caesin. I find they are low carb, high protein, quality ingredients, with low sugar and a great taste. I use them more when i dont have a chance to eat (like in between classes/jobs) or in the mornings before classes, because it makes me sick if i eat any solid foods before cardio (just me, ymmv).

As far as building muscle, you need to be in a calorie surplus to build muscle. Your body needs extra fuel to actually build so if you are not eating slightly above maintence calores, then you are not building muscle. So please do not think that adding in protein or protein powders alone will build muscle.

Also know that there is no real NEED for protein powders, if you are eating a diet rich in protein all ready and are getting enough protein there, then there is no reason to purchase supplements. I know all the marketing says you should, but really its only a convienence issue.

I also dont really think its a recovery booster per se, Having the correct calories and correct macro levels as well as adequate sleep/rest and a properly set up training program will be the best thing for recovery. I mean, you dont eat 8 ozs of chicken or beef for recovery, so a protein supplement isnt going to do much recovery wise except help you hit your cals and macros better.

For taking them, i mix them in about 6oz of water, whey is taken as needed and caesin is taken when dieting down at bedtime (slow digesting, keeps you fuller longer, no need to wake up hungry). Again, this isnt an everyday thing as i prefer to get my protein from actual foods, shakes should only be a supplement and not the basis of a diet.

Benefits, are ease of use, and easier to fit foods into my diet plan. Other than that, there is no real special "magic" about protein.

[abcollins1]

I bought this book and was it was not what i was expecting. I thought it would give more insight into specifically training for pole. As a personal trainer and fitness instructor, i found it to be the same information that I have all ready studied for years through various courses and certifications. I didnt find it overwhelming, the information was accurate, but gave me no new insight like I was hoping for. It gives the basics of any training program, and i am glad that now people may realize there is more to training for any fitness related goal than they think. Yes it is deeper than may be thought at first glance into A&P, but in order to know why we do certain things, you need at least a basic knowledge of how the body works.

If you feel like it is overwhelming, my advice would be to take notes and do more research on your own into the points that you werent sure about. The more informed you are, the better you can apply that knowledge to your own body/training and to those you teach as well.

[abcollins1]

Thank you for all of the info. I had not considered some of the points brought up. Im thinking that the pole sleeve is out as an idea, because i still want to use my pole as a regular pole, just need better grip.

Someone mentioned powder coating, i have no idea how to start looking into that or if my pole would fit in my car for transport (im not even sure my car is 7 ft long total! lol). The pole was delieverd by UPS and has never been out of my garage.

Right now i am leaning towards the SV pole more and more.

[abcollins1]

First, you should not feel bad for how you look. Wherever you are at now is just your starting point. Everyone has a starting point, for some they are overweight, some are underweight, some are at a good weight but "skinny fat" (this is very common). If you want to change your body, it takes lots of time, patience and work.

Being undermuscled is nothing to feel bad about. Most women are undermuscled because they do not train for it, and their lifestyle doesnt support it, and poorly set up diets do not consider that we need to feed our muscles.

I started out undermuscled as well due to years of poor training and very bad dieting , it has taken me nearly 4 years to bring up my muscle to a decent base.

The exercises that Jacki C said are fine, but unless you eat to gain muscle, those exercises will be useless.

Also, i would like to encourage you to educate yourself about proper nutrition and exercising. I can recommend the books New Rules of Lifting for Women and Starting Strength. Both have excellent info, nutrition plans, and workout plans that are effective. Some great websites to read are bodyrecomposition.com  alanaragon.com and emma-leigh.com as well as Leigh Peele. Thos are some of the greatest minds in the fitness industry and lay out great info in a way that is easy to understand.

I have a feeling that your nutritionist may not be telling you the correct info or is not understanding about physique training. They may be great at getting people to lose weight, but they may not have a great understanding of where to go from there.