firebird
Forum Replies Created
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Might be pain tolerance? Short Scorpio is considerably more painful, long one much more comfortable. Flexibility can play a part (hip openness and it’s a bit more twisty on the spine). Tip: try “forcing†it for a while by holding the foot of your hooked leg with opp hand, at least til you get used to it.
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Where are you located?
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Glad to hear everyone seems to agree and accept that we are all so diff and that really comes to bear on how we take on Ayeshas… I thought elbow was a great go-to for a 1st-timer as that’s what I got 1st after mastering the cat climb… and of course there’s all the warnings with twisted grip tho I personally never had issues as I always have been comfortable in any upright twisted grip pose/move/etc…
So turns out I learned my next Ayesha hold as a Twisted Grip in a workshop by *descending* (really unraveling) into it from a Scorpio — wow how solid I felt!!! Soon after that came doing the same from a layback, then a BM… I was loving TG as much as anyone does, but I also immediately started noticing the *funky* feeling in my bottom shoulder (no NOT the twisted top one!) *AFTER* I would come out of it… I never sustained any injury from this but I started suspecting that *funkiness* I was feeling was indicative of the kinds of problems that hold can cause for an Ayesha, as we all are pretty fairly warned… I can’t imagine for anyone who struggles more with twisted grips being more uncomfortable or unnatural due to tighter shoulders, etc — how THEY would fare with a TG Ayesha… No Bueno… So to be safe, I started easing away from playing with that hold much anymore and sticking with practicing other holds…
Wow that darn Split Grip always eluded me, BUT along the way thanks to an awesome David Owen workshop I discovered I had a rock solid CUP GRIP Ayesha!!! What an awesome feeling that was and I feel so in control with that hold I STRONGLY encourage all Ayesh-ers out there to give it a try. Such a natural comfortable grip, and like Veena talks about above, u can keep that elbow bent and it’s such a relief of ur body weight burden on your upper body by spreading it out more… and like one of the other posters here mentioned feeling more control or security by having more distance from the pole — YUP! Ditto! And in cup grip, problem solved: you get all that distance you could possibly want from the pole to feel more locked in with good lateral force (push into the pole)…
Now to make matters more complicated is what happens when instead of coming DOWN (“descending”) into an Ayesha, you lift UP into it — what a different story, at least for ME. My best most solid *handspring* turns out to be a SPLIT GRIP one yet in SG is my weakest Ayesha when descending into it!!! Go figure! Next most secure handspring hold is Twisted Grip but I hate how trapped I feel in those holds… & the idea of cup and elbow handspring scares the crap out of me… I maybe just need a spotter to try it, but for now lifting UP into Ayesha I’m all about the split grip. Yes confusing and I kind of know intuitively what’s the deal and why this is the case… But to explain clearly in words why this weird variation in arm/hand holds in descending vs Ascending (i.e. Via handspring) Into Ayeshas, works best for me — not sure I could pull off such an explanation ….
Hang in there! You’ll prob OWN all Ayeshas in no time!
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Wait one more thing: as for respecting our bodies, funny I think about things like this a lot as a mom, I guess I take in a lot of things in the world through the lens of “what do I really want my kids to learn out of this”… Anyway, being naked in front of others, entertaining others with your body, dancing with or without clothes on, in any possible venue — and I really ask you all to expand your minds on this one, I really mean ANY venue, from the Vienna Opera House to your local Deja Vu to a competition stage to on a screen for a music video/movie/TV show, etc — cannot possibly be automatically connected with disrespecting your body or your overall being, at least not alone in and of itself. That’s insane.
In fact I can see any person under any such above circumstances exemplifying the utmost respect for their bodies and themselves, with the prime care they might take of their bodies: the food they eat, the activity and fitness they engage in, the rest they afford themselves, all their physical habits honoring a wonderful body that deserves that care… of course, this isn’t truly everybody, there are dancers (of ALL sorts!) who starve themselves, drink too much, take/smoke stuff that can wreck their bodies and brains, overwork their bodies, or allow people to hurt or abuse them in any way, etc… oh yeah but wait, aren’t there people from every walk of life who also disrespect their bodies and all these various ways? Terrible eating habits, overly sedentary or inactive, allow people to take advantage of them physically… Oh I could go on forever… so let’s be real, like somebody said way above, “strippers” are just people, we are all just people, different kinds of people. Everybody really needs to hold their presumptions, assumptions, judgment, criticisms… At least of others — go ahead and flood yourself with your own about you, for sure. But then also, forgive and love yourself, and move on. -
OMG I want to take u all out for a beer, even you KellyePerkins — maybe to a bar with a pole! What fun we’do have, LOL. No but really, this has been such an entertaining thread to read, thank you all for your posts. I wanted to share a little story related to something I read above, abt intentions vs consequences of actions…
Very recently I had to clamp down on my older (age 12) son incessantly picking on his younger brother (age 10), to the point of hurting his feelings. He took to writing all of it off and explaining it away with “what, I was just kidding!” What we had to drill into his brain was the following: pursuing entertainment or enjoyment, for oneself alone or shared with others, does not afford any one the right to put down or hurt others in the process. Uh basic golden rule stuff? Did we not cover this in grade school??? So yeah, blaming others for taking offense is indeed a cop out. Well put emmasculator, jdh, Phoenix, and others
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San Diego, while in progressive Cali, can be fairly conservative too. You got a lot of Military, that alone nevermind the diversity of cultures (lots of Latino and Asian folks, more and more middle-Eastern and African refugees — many Muslim…). Anyway lots of everything here. My point I think was lost. It’s all the “non-mentioning” of pole people feel like they have to do — vs the mentioning we WOULD do? That’s weird to me. I’m a very extroverted and chatty person by nature, and very few topics at off-limits to me –and yet even I think it’s a bit cray to think we gotta go telling ppl about the latest hobby/passion we have taken up. I guess *maybe* it can come up in casual convo? That’s still a bit weird and far-fetched to me. And frankly, as for the Crossfit folks u bring up as an example? Um, yeah they can be a bit cray themselves.
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Renata, welcome to SV, you are in good hands here. And personally I love ur english.
As for this whole discussion, has anyone considered that WE are the ones making this problematic for ourselves? I think back to the days of when I was in a Latin dance troupe, or taking ballroom dance with my hubby, or when I was fanatical about kick-boxing or an advanced step aerobics class/trainer that I got so hooked on. Or the flamenco classes I was taking a while back. Or when I took up Lyra and fell in love with it. Or… I guess my point is, why do we feel pole as an activity (workout/sport, form of dance/therapy/whatever, etc) is in a special class of “mention”? Suddenly we get all sneaky about this new thing we take up and love, and treat it all taboo. Why? Do we do that about anything else we have an interest in and spend time or energy doing, presumably for our well-being? Be it a cooking class of prayerevan group, or who knows what… do we really bother going around telling the whole world abt what we did or started doing? (Does everybody even CARE what we do that much? Other than our partners/kids/BFFs? maybe parents too?)… anyway I started thinking, “if I do a yoga class or join an intramural soccer team, do I bother telling anyone? Let alone make a big old deal out of it?” I mean how often do we hear about our co-workers’ workouts at the gym or whatever? Pretty uninteresting topic I would think, other than to the person doing it. Not to minimize what we do and love on the pole, but it’s only important to US, and anyone else who may be interested in it for themselves. Marketing activity aside (say for a pole biz/performer/etc), when (and why?) did we start becoming all evangelistic about pole?
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u know they pole in Thailand — and all over Asia! & they are badass! So not sure where exactly you are going in the country but understand you aren’t going to Mars, & don’t write off the possibility of finding a studio near where you may be, look into it, the possibility of this will motivate you to make some time during your vaca for conditioning work both before and after til you get back home. And language shouldn’t be an issue — pole language is pretty universal! Have a great trip!
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A wonderful Christmas time indeed! Cute choreo, u gals were fun. And DEFINITELY cute costumes!
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shoot just realized this was just for 1 week? hadn’t read that in any posts above… or did I misread and have 1 MORE week left to buy at this price?
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Sorry I write so much, esp w/these topics I get passionate about. Forgive me. But if interested I had to add a bit more of an update to above based on what I just learned from my hubby the other night. And as I launch into this story have to preface with saying I have the best sweetest and smartest and most awesome husband in the world… so he spent all last week chaperoning at a camping trip with our older son’s class, alongside said mom from story above… and they had previously also both chaperoned on a camping trip with this class, & on that occasion, he had told me that the topic (of me & pole) was brought up by her, tho he pretty much was dismissive about it and so that was that. I come to find out from him NOW that on that trip 2 years ago she actually was badgering him repeatedly, he said he kept pretty much blowing her off but that she just wouldn’t let it go!!! I was like “what a freak!” and he’s such a big man about it that he didn’t even out her fully to me when he 1st mentioned to me one day casually that she somehow brought this up on that camping trip. Anyway, it sort of gave me a whole new insight on this poor woman, who now I actually just pity more than anything. And to think how much she harassed my husband and made him uncomfortable for goodness sake! And truthfully he is much more conservative and prefers to be discreet about me poling… Fine whatever I don’t care in the slightest. BUT he was so awesome that when he was telling me about all this just earlier this week, and I was so mad at hearing how much she bothered him about it, I was like “wait but I thought u really got along & clicked so well with her?!” he tells me “no way, after all that 2 years ago, I figured her out quick, and hated how it felt like she was judging both me and you over this! no way, I don’t like or trust that lady at all!” I was like “whoah…” and fell in love with him all over again. Especially when he followed with this: “yeah it’s not my fault or problem when other women out there let themselves go or feel like they’re supposed to neglect themselves and be frumpy-looking women to be good moms to their kids… so it shouldn’t be their problem if some women out there DO take care of themselves and know how to keep having fun. I’m not gonna apologize for having a sexy wife who still knows how to work it…” so there u have it.
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By the way I have to add this mom in question is an attorney too…
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ah ignorance… is bliss indeed but only for the ignorant, LOL! meanwhile they are major pains in the butt to the rest of us!!!
not to make light, Tesar I do feel for you and hate that u are having to go through this… in time, maybe you won’t even notice these things anymore… maybe…
I’ve been poling for over 5 yrs now and I remember a cpl years back when I had what seemed like 1/2 the moms in my older son’s class giving me the EYE, u know those weird (almost evil) side-long glances, etc — while the other 1/2 of them were burning with curiosity and questions for me abt pole classes and what is it like, and can I do it? etc… 1 mom even said to me once that I should not wear anymore tops with the logo of the studio where I teach around other parents because “the last thing a lot of us need is one more thing out there for our husbands to fantasize about!” I was overall pretty mortified, tho I have to admit I was also really confused as to whether I’m supposed to feel flattered or insulted by this insane comment… but again back to my overall reaction, what u have to know is it was based on this being said to me at a mom’s night in gathering hosted at HER house, so yes out loud across a big table (we were seated at opposite ends) in front of about a dozen other moms in attendance. I was never hiding that I pole dance, but I also wasn’t ever going around talking to everyone about it either… as for wearing a tank or sweatshirt with studio logo, yes I teach during the day while my kids are in school, am required to wear thw studio logo attire, and often I’m running out of the studio after work to hop straight into my car and race over to pick them up at dismissal. No one in my family is negatively affected at all by my poling (quite the contrary I would say), but apparently in other families some are??? so sad…
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as an instructor over the years i’ve observed abt 1/2 dozen cases where polers got implants either while already poling or close to before starting. in general I have seen that 6-12 months seems to be the magic #. yes wide range, but I’m being “lax” with the 6 months… really best bounce-back case I’ve seen the person was off the pole and all upper body intensive stuff for about a solid year — and she was at the point where she was doing beautiful handspring and ayeshas before implants… about as conservative as I’ve seen because then she eased back after all that time (mind you her overall body was already in glorious beautiful shape, namely from the core down) with really low level (we’re talking Intro here) classes… Didn’t dare to do shoulder mounts for close to 6 months, and prob all those old handsprings & Ayeshas til about the year mark… AND: zero problems. Absolutely no repercussions getting back to the pole, she’s as strong now & fluid and beautiful on the pole as ever, boos look great, no issues and she’s never looked back since. All the more Intermed -> Adv ppl (abt 3-4) I’ve seen hop back onto pole (in my mind recklessly) in under 6 months have had problems and gone in for at least 1 (yes seen multiple even) corrective surgery, like within 1-3 months!! Weird masses of scar tissue, implants shifting/sagging or even bursting, pockets of fluid build-up, etc… So while it seems like at least 6 months is a key threshold of time to hold off, the sooner you go back to poling in less than that amt of time the more likely to have serious problems requiring you to go back under the knife. Ugh… Sorry probably not what you want to hear, none of my students like to hear this, in fact they even have taken to “sneaking around” & staying away from my classes when they come back sooner than I told them is wise, and later I find out they are out of commission again and just keep being “stuck” with no progress year after year on the pole… sad… but if it was me, I would just accept the sacrifice for something I really want and just go the tried and true “sustainable” route of taking a LONG break (line up some other new physical activities you can get excited about for a while, like yoga, or spin or belly dancing or, whatever, I don’t know… )… that’s a big physical and financial investment to not make a lot of effort to preserve it… good luck!
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going back to newschik’s original question, I have a question back for u: are u asking about this dynamic in other studios as an instructor for tips on how to deal with this situation ? or just asking for curiosity’s sake? because I have answers on all kinds of levels for u about this, for both possible motivations behind ur question, based on what I do as an instructor, my opinions/reactions as a student, what the postion is at the studio where I teach, and what *actually* happens in practice… the latter of which I’ll tell you boils down to the fact that this business — like almost any other — is a people business after all… people on both ends of the teacher-student equation, each with their motives/goals, & their respective personalities and styles of relating to people… just as one VERY micro example: as an instructor, when I’ve had the occasional overly-ambitious student impatiently wanting stuff they’re not ready for, honestly there are typically just 2 types of students I’be seen tend to go there — (a) the ones who know better (so they think) & (b) the ones who KNOW they really don’t know any better at all. My response to the (b) types of these students is usually a very grave (almost severe) but brief explanation about all the strength or whatever skills are required to do move X and the bad consequences of not having that but attempting said move anyway, beyond just mere failure & frustration (injury, etc)… that usually has been enough for eyes to open wide with fear and then glaze over and then that one is squashed, moving on… the (a) types I find more difficult and frustrating, bc now they know more, almost too much but no where near enough at the same time… As I’ve heard said, “enough to do damage” — or at least potentially to themselves mostly. These students tend to have more experience and really do have a better understanding of what it takes to conquer certain moves in pole, but not necessarily a COMPLETE understanding. Yet they tend to be the ones who are more stubborn and difficult to get “back on the right track”. But I’m a bit of a meanie and the “strict mama” in me comes out and says: “ok let me see your caterpillar — both sides — at least 3 in a row… needs to be rock solid, no slippling, no prompting from me (meaning U GOT this)… after that I want to see the caterpillar CLIMB, same deal both sides, at least 3 climbs, etc… THEN I want to see little D, and then big D, & them I can maybe start getting you into that Ayesha…” ayayay, they also need to give me a solid shoulder stand with legs straight up (so I know they can control their core), etc… yes meanie, I know… but usually doesn’t take much to pretty much squash the swagger and get us to get real and on the same page of what stuff is gonna take to achieve… that said, I have also had even MORE stubborn students than THAT who I have either handled by trying to get them excited about another (possibly related or complementary, but not necessarily) totally DIFFERENT move that is more appropriate for their level and they are more likely to succeed with (the old bait&switch I guess), or by simply telling them straight up I won’t be that instructor taking them there until I’ve seen the right skill set demonstrated — and I’ve seen these students either just go home and take this stuff on themselves or recruit the help of another more willing instfinda (who either might just not care or know better & often eventually find out the issue of why this person is bypassing previous instructors…) AYAYAY there are really so many things at play in this situation. As I mentioned earlier, my studio has it’s own declared approach, based on a certain progression from clearly-defined levels (using PSO level classifications) with which every class is labeled in the class title to hopefully minimize confusion but also help set proper expectations (on behalf of both students and instructors), and also that instructors are strictly expected to stick to (“teach the level assigned to the class! not above, not below!” as studio owner would say)… NOW in practice, different things manifest… based on the dynamics between the specific student and teacher, the class as a whole, etc… most of the time levels are prob well adhered to, others might go up or down… and I really mean “or” — I have definitely had to dial a class way back for some or all of students present based on what I’m seeing vs what the game plan theoretically was… or even surprisingly went WAY further than what was on the agenda… I also had a sad experience of a student having a frightening fall in learning Ayesha when she dotted all i’s & crossed all t’s of preparation and even pulled off masterfully with me spotting… but even THEN her head wasn’t all there and ready, whammo… horrifying… so scary… think I been surprised by the opposite type of situation happening, but really only about 2x max… so I tend to err on the side of caution…
ok so if u made it to then end of this whole long dissertation, then in a nutshell there’s just no easy answer to what to do about this phenomenon to control every time (“test” in place or not)…
as a student, just try to not let the insistence of others bother you: that’s their journey, enjoy your own… and in your own pole story, hang onto that more conservative and precautionary penchant that assures your sense of safety, no matter what situation you’re in while learning…